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(Difference between revisions) | User:Haerangil
(Hello, and Request Advice)
(Hello, and Request Advice)
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I've noticed one (relatively minor) problem on this wiki: the source of the material presented, especially images. I recognize many map clips and artwork from ICE MERP sources, but that's only because I am already familiar with it; but I'm left wondering where much of the other stuff originated. This is important because, in order to properly interpret the material, it's source must be known. Related: how to edit the info on images, including source and license. Thanks, V
 
I've noticed one (relatively minor) problem on this wiki: the source of the material presented, especially images. I recognize many map clips and artwork from ICE MERP sources, but that's only because I am already familiar with it; but I'm left wondering where much of the other stuff originated. This is important because, in order to properly interpret the material, it's source must be known. Related: how to edit the info on images, including source and license. Thanks, V
 
:Yes i try to bring many different interpretations of Middle-Earth into concordence, which is sometimes very difficult.I use sometimes maps based on ICE maps which i have edited, so they differ from the original versions in the game books quite a bit, some other maps are based on MECCG maps which i have also edited, and some maps are snippets from LOTRO and aümany maps i made myself.Other contributors have also added maps they made themselves or found, i often do not know exactly where they do come from.I have a huge collection of middle-earth maps on my hard disc, some come from fanmodules, some from other sources, of some i do not even know the authors.When i make a new map i usually try to consult as many maps as i can find.Still sometimes mistakes can happen... but i try my best.--[[User:Haerangil|Haerangil]] ([[User talk:Haerangil|talk]]) 20:38, March 28, 2020 (UTC)
 
:Yes i try to bring many different interpretations of Middle-Earth into concordence, which is sometimes very difficult.I use sometimes maps based on ICE maps which i have edited, so they differ from the original versions in the game books quite a bit, some other maps are based on MECCG maps which i have also edited, and some maps are snippets from LOTRO and aümany maps i made myself.Other contributors have also added maps they made themselves or found, i often do not know exactly where they do come from.I have a huge collection of middle-earth maps on my hard disc, some come from fanmodules, some from other sources, of some i do not even know the authors.When i make a new map i usually try to consult as many maps as i can find.Still sometimes mistakes can happen... but i try my best.--[[User:Haerangil|Haerangil]] ([[User talk:Haerangil|talk]]) 20:38, March 28, 2020 (UTC)
  +
Please see: [[File_talk:Arthedainplacenames.jpg]]. Thanks, V [[User:Hlingler|Hlingler]] ([[User talk:Hlingler|talk]]) 22:59, March 29, 2020 (UTC)
   
 
==maps==
 
==maps==

Revision as of 22:59, March 29, 2020

Hello, and Request Advice

Hello Hareangil:

My main motivation to join this wiki is to collect, in one place, as much detailed info on third-party MERP resources as possible, motivated by my own long searches for such info; and to contribute to the general effort. Accordingly, I would like to add some resources that do not fit into the already defined categories: Campaigns (extended settings covering multiple Adventures, e.g.: the Guild Companion's Minas Brethil campaign), Realms (settings detailing regions but without specific Adventures, e.g.: MERP Fan Modules' Kun Anyam - The Spice Streets), and so on. But I am hesitant to make such major changes without discussion first. Please advise.

Thanks, Vince (Hlingler)

well of course this place is just for that, but i see what you mean.Such massive addon of couse can not be but on just one single page or article but has to be split up into the existing patterns.Maybe one single page with the campaign or module title and an overview with interwikis to the single articles (Character, Place,... etc.) Would be the best option.What do you think?

--Haerangil (talk) 04:49, March 22, 2020 (UTC)

The least disruptive way would probably be to add a page "[MERP] Campaigns by 3rd Parties" (in categories 'Games' and 'Role-Playing') and link to it from the "Adventures" page. There is already a 'Realms' category, so a page "[MERP] Realms by 3rd Parties" could be added? Let me think on this….
A separate fanmodules category could be possible for example.For campaigns perhaps this could be a pattern? Middle-Earth Down Under: An Antipodean Campaign

--Haerangil (talk) 06:20, March 22, 2020 (UTC)

Generally i think Adventures (List),Adventures in Middle-Earth by various Authors and Scenarios should be sufficient as categories for new content.Of course everything must be properly interlinked with the existing articles/Pages --Haerangil (talk) 06:33, March 22, 2020 (UTC)

I see that you added a new category "Campaign". Looks good to me —— I think I see how to proceed: simply leave the existing pages (Adventures, Scenarios, etc.) as generic, and add new content as required even from different game systems, plus a new page "Campaigns" and other new pages as required for more specific content. P.S. How do you add your details and time-stamp to these edits? Is there a more effective way to communicate than this? Thanks, V

Well i use two of this - and three of this~
I think i'm usually quick to read and answer on this page, also it keeps it open for other possinle contributors to read and comment too.--Haerangil (talk) 04:07, March 23, 2020 (UTC)

Please see Talk:Long_Fell and respond. Thanks, V

Lather, rinse, repeat. Thanks, V

I've noticed one (relatively minor) problem on this wiki: the source of the material presented, especially images. I recognize many map clips and artwork from ICE MERP sources, but that's only because I am already familiar with it; but I'm left wondering where much of the other stuff originated. This is important because, in order to properly interpret the material, it's source must be known. Related: how to edit the info on images, including source and license. Thanks, V

Yes i try to bring many different interpretations of Middle-Earth into concordence, which is sometimes very difficult.I use sometimes maps based on ICE maps which i have edited, so they differ from the original versions in the game books quite a bit, some other maps are based on MECCG maps which i have also edited, and some maps are snippets from LOTRO and aümany maps i made myself.Other contributors have also added maps they made themselves or found, i often do not know exactly where they do come from.I have a huge collection of middle-earth maps on my hard disc, some come from fanmodules, some from other sources, of some i do not even know the authors.When i make a new map i usually try to consult as many maps as i can find.Still sometimes mistakes can happen... but i try my best.--Haerangil (talk) 20:38, March 28, 2020 (UTC)

Please see: File_talk:Arthedainplacenames.jpg. Thanks, V Hlingler (talk) 22:59, March 29, 2020 (UTC)

maps

Sonofthewild (talk) 07:41, September 9, 2019 (UTC) Hi, I wonder if exists full Arda map or other regional maps that are similar to this one (coming from the same source/map maker tool) posted on 2013 in Ormal article: 

https://merp.fandom.com/wiki/File:Ormal3.jpg

I'll be glad for reference link or sending it on mine @: sonofthewild@gmail.com


oh! That's one of my own old maps...
You can browse under for more...

these i remember... --Haerangil (talk) 12:12, September 9, 2019 (UTC)




Sonofthewild (talk) 15:01, March 10, 2020 (UTC) Hi, question is to MERP map: does exists any comprhensive index of names (labels) used in MERP map?: For instance I can't decipher first to the north, this labeled one, tributary river of r.Fornen in Thargelion (Di...rnen ... ?) https://clementamezieux.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/ihypkemxzapuu.jpg

sadly none that i knew of...

reads like Duornen or Dvornen,or Dunornen/Dunurnen maybe?Anyway i guess the name should be corrected to a real Sindarin form I think, a lot of the Names used in MERP are a real mess...--Haerangil (talk) 16:56, March 10, 2020 (UTC)


Sonofthewild (talk) 08:30, March 12, 2020 (UTC)Font used on MERP maps: what font has been used on MERP maps? (name or link to download)

seems to have been no standard font, I believe Mr. Fenlon created his very own font for his maps.--Haerangil (talk) 11:16, March 12, 2020 (UTC)
they seem to be a variation of the Gaeilge font... --Haerangil (talk) 11:19, March 12, 2020 (UTC)

How to edit

Hey Haerangil,

I don't know how to edit this wiki because I don't know where to get information from, I don't have any sources. Do I have to be an owner of some MERP books or something? I have some on PDF. KingElessar777 (talk) 23:45, September 11, 2019 (UTC)

well i guess it is always nice if you can give references... bit this ain't strictly a rpg wiki on MERP, it is really a subcreation-project...

See:https://merp.fandom.com/wiki/User:Haerangil

--Haerangil (talk) 00:05, September 12, 2019 (UTC)

Sonofthewild (talk) 13:40, March 25, 2020 (UTC)How to delete image once uploaded ? (I don't see any delete button anywhere, perhaps it's an issue of granting privileges). sometimes I have to delete what I'm uploading without maintaining newest version (replacing button)

hmm strange, i think users should have permission to delete their own uploads.Cant't you click on the picture and then get to it's page where then there should be delete options under "edit" as well as under "file history"?--Haerangil (talk) 14:53, March 25, 2020 (UTC)
Sonofthewild (talk) 07:43, March 26, 2020 (UTC) 

- under EDIT button , I don't see any option - under arrow drop down menu, I have 3 options: history, replace, talk | under any of them I don't see any deletation function

normally - where should it be? do you have it?

Yeah i have it, so it must be an issue of user rights... --Haerangil (talk) 10:25, March 26, 2020 (UTC)
Sonofthewild (talk) 10:37, March 27, 2020 (UTC) Usage of "Replace imgae" tool tip: when replacing image, mind on file format - file format of newer image has to be the same as the previouselly uploaded image (e.g.: replacing is possible only from JPG to JPG, from PNG to PNG, but not from JPG to any other), in other way you'll receive "MIME file format" error.

Messages to Users

Is there a way to do a mass message for anyone to answer? Moran half valar (talk) 00:21, September 14, 2019 (UTC)

Maybe--Haerangil (talk) 20:44, September 17, 2019 (UTC)


Sonofthewild (talk) 09:11, March 11, 2020 (UTC) Do We don't need a tool to fast messages exchange? - like Fb group or discord channel? It would make thinks easier when comes to asking/answering/reaching a common position on any case ...

hmm... i'd like to solve questions right here on the wiki rather than outside...

i also do not think an fb group would be quicker or more effective in any case.Discord i don't even know about... --Haerangil (talk) 11:45, March 11, 2020 (UTC)

Erkenbrand

Hi Haerangil, its been a long time, listen, I made a change on the Erkenbrand page. I did a rename for Erkenbrand Drenghorn. Have a look at this link: https://the-veiled-stars-mod.fandom.com/wiki/Erkenbrand Let me know what you think.--Spenpiano (talk) 17:27, September 17, 2019 (UTC)

Gudhere Réneward

Should the character Gunnár Renweard be changed to Gudhere Réneward? Is this is more fitting?--Spenpiano (talk) 11:39, September 24, 2019 (UTC)

Personally i don't feel that family, clan or surnames seem to have been a common practice among the Rohirrim.They either used a personal title referring to a deed or feat like Eadig or Ednew or used the name of a renowned ancestor such as Hildeson.Please check again the article on naming:Names.

If a house-name would have been used i think "Gudhere Rénewarding", is posdibly the most likely variant.The same issues are relevant for all rohirrim characters--Haerangil (talk) 11:46, September 24, 2019 (UTC)

Copy that sir--Spenpiano (talk) 11:48, September 24, 2019 (UTC)
They also use placenames like "of Grimslade" to distinct themselves.Or you could simply say "of House Réneward" or "of the Rénewardings" if it's important to you...

please also check your other character names again.--Haerangil (talk) 11:53, September 24, 2019 (UTC)

Oh that's perfect, tell me the names to check?--Spenpiano (talk) 11:56, September 24, 2019 (UTC)
For House Eastanweard, which name should be better? House Eastánward?--Spenpiano (talk) 12:22, September 24, 2019 (UTC)
all of your rohirrim, to be honest☺.I think it should be Eásterneward or Eásternward, if i understand jrrt's rendering of anglosaxon right.By the way, the article on the Rohirrim DOES feature an account on Rohan's clans...--Haerangil (talk) 12:19, September 25, 2019 (UTC)
Here are two sites:

New Lands Characters

In the Scenarios concerning the New Lands, I have Fankil becoming a resident along these New Lands, because he would have brought over the sacrificial ways of the Black Temple to the Lossoth who cross into the New Lands. 

My question here though is this: are there any good powers to challenge him--and maybe persuade other Lossoth to fight against Fankil? 

Many differing tribes of Lossoth (Natives) fought in our real world (which Tolkien's is derived from). So could Earendil the Blessed be a good character? Maybe his wife as well? You do have him listed as finding Greenland and other places, but in the canon it states that he is in the sky. So how do we deal with this? Concerning the canon? Moran half valar (talk) 00:00, September 25, 2019 (UTC)

well... i propose we study the prehistoric settlement of the americas and take it as an example?--Haerangil (talk) 21:39, September 25, 2019 (UTC)


Okay, and if you read my comments above, that is what I was saying. But I was asking what characters could have influenced them. I figure Fankil had to run and teach the Lossoth the art of sacrificing humans to the Dark Lord--but what good character would stand against Fankil? That was my question. Moran half valar (talk) 23:59, September 25, 2019 (UTC)


Also, I don't see how Earendil the blessed could discover and adventure to find these New Lands as they would have had to form after the Second Age, when Numenor sunk--and he is confined to the sky. Moran half valar (talk) 00:20, September 26, 2019 (UTC)

Agreed.Earendil traveled islands which lay between Middle-earth and Aman, he did not even come close to Southernesse or the new Lands.On the characters which may have influenced them... again, i guess they would have to come from thevamericas mythologies and then somehow must be adapted in a fittingvway into JRRT's cosmology!--Haerangil (talk) 05:39, September 26, 2019 (UTC)
allright there are two exceptions:Greenland and Iceland! Earendil definitely visitedvthem in Lost Tales.--Haerangil (talk) 06:07, September 26, 2019 (UTC)

Himlingfoe

If your wondering, I found Himlingfoe in this wikia site: https://the-veiled-stars-mod.fandom.com/wiki/Nobles_of_Rohan

Have a look at first. If what you say is true about that name, is there another way to change the name?--Spenpiano (talk) 16:41, September 25, 2019 (UTC)
yeah, somebody made up that name without checking the proper linguistics! Thatvalso happened with MERP and CODA and it happens with a lot fanfic.When i adapt something from such flawed sources and i notice their mistake, then i try to check linguistics and correct it.Linguistics were very important to JRRT.I think if we do subcreation in his worls we owe him to do our best at using the proper linguistics.--Haerangil (talk) 16:59, September 25, 2019 (UTC)
well a "foend" is one wo undertakes or supports...but himming is still a shoe..
"Hem" means border, "Heming" could be a person born on the border... perhaps a clan of supporters from the borderlands could bear a name like "Hemingfoendas"?--Haerangil (talk) 17:03, September 25, 2019 (UTC)
Agreed, do you have good surnames that you might evolve those words into?--Spenpiano (talk) 17:27, September 25, 2019 (UTC)
not really! It always depends if a family name is derived from a name of an ancestor, a place or maybe a title.Hemingfoend, sounds more like a titlevthan a personal name... --Haerangil (talk) 17:32, September 25, 2019 (UTC)

Earendil

I don't understand Earendil's timeline. Did he discover Greenland and Iceland in the Second/Third Age? If so, how did he get out of the sky? The Silmarillion states that he was confined to the sky in the First Age. So canonically speaking, did he leave the sky to discover these places? Moran half valar (talk) 04:05, October 3, 2019 (UTC)

He ,ustbhave done so before he reached Valinor on his odyssey, of which more is mentioned in lost taley and from which most was cut out in the pubsil.So the green land and the ice-land probably were lands or isles in the western ocean, presumably part of aman or the helcaraxe, in anyway different from our modern Greenland and Iceland, but maybe precursors which became part of planet Earth after the second age..--Haerangil (talk) 12:36, October 3, 2019 (UTC)

images in articles

Hi Haerangil, just to let you know, i wanted to do a switch on the maggot images. Please let me know what you think.--Spenpiano (talk) 13:49, October 4, 2019 (UTC)

It's not that i can't understand anybody to be unhappy with this pic or that pic on the wiki... but i can't simply let anybody change all pics after his own will... everybody will choose his own fav pic, and one does prefer the jackson movies, another one will prefer this or that artist.I chose most pics i chose with a lot of thinking and consideration and often because i wanted to preserve an unknown illustration from a forgotten trading card or rpg book i liked.Often these illustrations were INTENDED to mean another character, but i found they could work perfectly for a totally different character, where they REALLY could inspire ideas to see more behind a character than just a short stub article.So now farmer maggot from the jackson movie is not farmer maggot anymore but farmer maggots oldest son? Did i understand your change right? --Haerangil (talk) 14:41, October 4, 2019 (UTC)

Blocked user

Allright i have decided to block user:the drunk orc.The user has recurrently removed or deleted content contributed by other users without previous discussion and inconceavably ignored all requests , advices and warnings not to do so.I had left him the option to comment on his own talk page and he even had the guts to delete the posts with my warnings and the reason for his temporary block and insult me on a personal level.Sorry but i can't allow such behaviour on what is intended to be a shared project.Of course there will always be content of questionable or disputable matter and of course one might want to change or remove such content or try to adjust it to fit better with the Middle-earth canon.But i can not allow people running wild, changing things writted by other people -including myself- arbitrarily and at random the way they like and after nothing but their own taste.Such topics and changes need to be subject of discussion before major edits are made.--Haerangil (talk) 17:30, October 5, 2019 (UTC)


Haerangil, this ahole should have been blocked a long time ago, he was going around and messing up all the articles. He didn't contribute to anything! Good riddance.

I thank you for your compassion.--Haerangil (talk) 22:14, October 5, 2019 (UTC)

Edits

Evenin’, Herangil. Just thought I’d let you know what most of my edits are usually like, and ask for your advice in return. Usually, I will try to edit minor grammatical aspects and sometimes try to make language or context a little clearer. If one of my edits is a bit too extreme, feel free to let me know. Sometimes I may over-edit something thinking I’m giving more meaning to a story or giving hope to a depressing one.

Thank you! Just try not to remove other users contributed content without any prior discussion and everything is fine! --Haerangil (talk) 01:06, October 25, 2019 (UTC)



New Land and Dark Land Names

Hey Haerangil, I was wondering--since we are saying that men from the east managed to cross into the New Lands sometime between the Second & Third Ages, I was wondering what names the Lossoth like tribes would have based on Tolkien's work. I mean, the Lossoth currently have Finnish names and I don't think those would be very Native American sounding! Moran half valar (talk) 04:03, October 30, 2019 (UTC)

the Lossoth language is represented by finnish as a nod to JRRT'S love of finnish.I don't know what languages conlangs for the dark lands and new langs could be based on.MERP has used Amerind as a base for some of the farthest east languages, however the structure is still pretty much based on Jrrt elvish.I guess primitive Quendian and Melkorin are pretty much the very base of all mannish languages.Then to develop new languages one would have to abstracize from these... --Haerangil (talk) 19:32, November 3, 2019 (UTC)

Dark Lands

Can you please finish the persons of reknown on the Dark Lands page? It hasn't been completed yet. Or at least can you add some character bios on there? Moran half valar (talk) 23:48, October 30, 2019 (UTC)

i can't at the moment!sorry... --Haerangil (talk) 19:32, November 3, 2019 (UTC)


Then can you answer me this, are you drawing mostly on Urulan, the great Isle of eastern Jaiman from the module Vog Mur for inspiration for the Dark Lands? I have the Vog Mur module and can fill in many gaps, but it was the newer one adapted to shadow world. 

Also, are there any other Shadow World modules you would want me to look up for inspiration? I have a good portion of those, but I just need to know the direction this wiki is heading with Southernesse. Please let me know as soon as possible. Moran half valar (talk) 22:36, November 3, 2019 (UTC)

Actually no, i did not draw much from shadow world, as i mainly collected what Norman Talbot wrote in his one article for Other hands magazine and after that what ever i took from the few maps/sketches of southernesse which were published by the fanmodules project.Though i adjusted both to fit more with the canon.The only RM info i eventually added were a few names which appeared in the published Loremaster books.To be honest i'd like to keep Middle-earth and shadow world apart and NOT include anything else from the Rolemaster legacy.Though i wouldn't like to completely erase Loremaster, after all there are too many traces if it left in the MERP canon to ignore it.So far i like it that nothing was written on easternesse/the New lands.Some things better stay mysterys. --Haerangil (talk) 04:32, November 4, 2019 (UTC)


Okay got it Shadow world and Middle Earth apart. But we are world building and you have already put a lot about Southerness on the Dark Lands page anyways, like Blood Drinking Dragons and other stuff of Loremaster nature. We have this page already, I think it would be neat to see the Dark Lands totally flushed out, but if you are unwilling to do that, then I don't see why we made a Dark Lands page to begin with then. Moran half valar (talk) 04:45, November 4, 2019 (UTC)

i was documenting and collecting other peoples works.I am also not saying i'll never turn towards the details of these articles, i just can't do it right now and i have other things on my to-do list first.By the way that is how i created this wiki right from the start, first collecting overviews and making lists, then filling out these lists/collections and doing the detail work.--Haerangil (talk) 11:26, November 6, 2019 (UTC)

Beornings

The stance of this wiki is that the Beornings ability to change is based upon genetics and not a learned ability--because everyone would be using it if it was learned right? It comes down to a spirit/maiar that passed the genetic ability to transform into a were-bear. So eventually this skill would die out right? Moran half valar (talk) 23:15, November 3, 2019 (UTC)

it is not clear if the trait is inherited by genetics or by cultural practice.I am happy with leaving it uncertain.--Haerangil (talk) 04:26, November 4, 2019 (UTC)


You made it about genetics, thus is why you have Berubero being the founding father. If it was a learned skill, then everyone would be changing into were-bears and the cult wouldn't die out at all! Moran half valar (talk) 04:46, November 4, 2019 (UTC)

i did NOT make it about genetics.I insist it is still open.Traditions die out, those things just happen.Especially when kept among a small circle of initiates.According to LOTRO the shapeshifting skill came from Radagast btw. Though i am not a big fan of that idea.--Haerangil (talk) 11:28, November 6, 2019 (UTC)



Gates of Gehenna

Do you know of any characters that were supposed to be included or anything about this module? I would like to list some of the characters...if any are known, if not I guess we can just make them up? Or should we use Shadow World characters as a bases? Moran half valar (talk) 05:20, November 24, 2019 (UTC)

i have zero info on that.I have read Gethaena and it's weird... to incorporate it to a Middle-earth setting would not be easy... --Haerangil (talk) 09:02, November 24, 2019 (UTC)

Ferny snr and squint pics

Why change back the image on Bill Ferny the Elder if I may ask?

There were two non-canonical ruffians (Bill Ferny Snr. - Bill Ferny's father; the "Squint" - the squint-eyed southerner or if not his father) at the Prancing Pony inn in The HobbitDesolation of Smaug:

BillFernySnr

This one played by Dallas Barnett. He is credited as Bill Ferny Snr. But notice he has as a squint.This is clearly intended to be the squint-eyed southerner we see in J.R.R. Tolkien's The Fellowship of the Ring or his father at the very least. 

Squint

This one played by Matt Smith. He is credited as the "Squint". But despite his nickname he has no squint. And though black-haired, the "wild" locks of hairs and the ragged clothing more closely resemble the look of Bill Ferny (according to the Trading Card Game). 

Billferny

This is one of the ill-favoured Men at the Prancing Pony inn in The Fellowship of the Ring who is identified as Bill Ferny by the Trading Card Game. Even though they are actors and all and this is fiction, he has more in common look-like and clothing-like to Matt Smith's character than Dallas Barnett's.

I'm not complaining that you changed the image. After all, you're the founder here not me. You know best. But at least tell me if you don't think it is just a credits mistake. I mean... the "Squint" has no squint but his partner-in-crime has a squint. It seems like they have been mistakenly swapped. (Also a question: according to this wiki which one is supposed to be the squint-eyed southerner: Euog or Doeth? They're both half-orcs so I couldn't figure that out).Alex of Star Wars (talk) 19:30, January 16, 2020 (UTC)

That is a good point.I think i am convinced and will change it back!--Haerangil (talk) 19:34, January 16, 2020 (UTC)

The Kingdom of Romenor

Greetings Haerangil, I've been following this wiki for a long time and recently discovered that the old(early 2000s era) Romenor website is available on the Wayback Machine(right here: https://web.archive.org/web/20020206203635/http://wwnet.fi/~opax/romenor/index.html ). I'm considering going and transfering that content onto the wiki here, ust to make sure it is preserved for posterity, but I'm not sure if you'd want that or not, or would rather I rewrite the information in a different fromat to avoid copying straight from the old Romenor website. I think it's a wonderful fan expansion of Middle-Earth and would love to see it preserved for the future, especially in such an alteady expansive and beautiful wiki that you have. Fargoniac (talk) 23:00, February 15, 2020 (UTC)

Hi! Well, technically that's what's this Wiki supposed for...

on the other hand it would probably need a lot of retcon-work to make romenor fit in, like i had to do with Southernesse... i usually abstain from modifying other people's work that much, it's like taking their ideas away. On the other hand, this happens all the time on this wiki... --Haerangil (talk) 01:41, February 16, 2020 (UTC)

That makes sense, so what do you think should be done? Or will you have to think about it more? Fargoniac (talk) 05:48, February 16, 2020 (UTC)

just do it, we'll work it in somehow.--Haerangil (talk) 07:49, February 16, 2020 (UTC)

Smaug - servant/allly (?) of Sauron

I know the books say nothing on this subject. In Unfinished Tales, Gandalf only feared that Sauron could compell Smaug into his service (or at the very least forge an alliance with him): "The Dragon Sauron might use with terrible effect." 

I am aware that "might" does not mean certain. But given that Gandalf is a very knowledgeable and wise being, he wouldn't be daunteed by something that didn't seem almost surely to happen. Lusting for power and enticed, Saruman swore allegiance (though not 100% genuine) to Sauron, seeking to either gain the One Ring for himself or become his servant alone. Smaug has an inherent thirst for gold and a taste for destruction. Though Dragons' loyalty is somewhat questionable (whether it be to Morgoth or Sauron), they did the bidding of evil overlords when it suited them as well. 

But how do we know that Smaug was not already in Sauron's employ? After all, we know the "Necromancer" was stirring up the confederations of Easterlings (mainly the Wainriders and Balchoth), the Corsairs of Umbar, the Black Numenoreans, the hill-men in the North, tribes of Orcs from the Misty Mountains, packs of wild Wolves (and Wargs) and Trolls from the Ettenmoors. Why would he not have a hand behind drawing old Smaug from his lair? Word did spread fast of the treasure hoard the Dwarves had within Erebor, but why could the Dragon not have been directed there by an unseen force? A greater Power he might be susceptible to whose commands he would be susceptible to and one who could exploit his greed? 

The Hobbit extended edition films (although they are NON-CANONICAL) confirm Gandalf's fears when Thrain reveals that "the Dragon and the One" are in league. In the theathrical cut, Smaug hints that he is awaiting his master, Sauron, to declare himself once more and cover the lands in Darkness. 

In LOTRO, Sauron is revealed to have sent heralds and messengers to buy Smaug's allegiance (though the Dragon perishes before the Dark Lord's agents succeed). 

Given that this wiki also delves in FANON outside information from J.R.R. Tolkien's books, Christopher Tolkien's revisions, Peter Jackson's films and EA's games, why can't Smaug be a secret servant/ally of Sauron? Or at the very least mention the Dark Lord's attempts to recruit him (unlike Morgoth who would have allowed fellow dark forces run about as agent of chaos and not command them himself, Sauron recruits many into his service or at the very least stirs them up/influences them from afar. As Gandalf noted, the fallen Maia could have persuaded Smaug to join with him, promising him immense wealth). Or at least hint that it was Sauron's doing that made sure word of Erebor's riches reached Smaug?

Your the founder/admin so you know best. I just want to know why we can't speculate on the matter given we also write Tolkien-related  FANON  here. Have a nice time, Haerangil!Alex of Star Wars (talk) 16:50, February 18, 2020 (UTC)

Yup.Mentioning that Sauron MIGHT recruit Smaug or maybe TRIED to recruit Smaug is a different thing from stating that Smaug DID swear allegiance to Sauron.The last gives us serious lore-trouble, the first is ok.--Haerangil (talk) 18:55, February 18, 2020 (UTC)

Castandur

I think the name of Castandur should be change to "Castarion", due to the original second son of Castamir is called Castarion, not Castandur. Thanks

https://notionclubarchives.fandom.com/wiki/Castandur

 Morgomir88 (talk) 17:58, February 19, 2020 (UTC)

Hmm we don't have any canonic names for Castamir's children as far as i know... it's possible that Castaher or Castarion are from MERP though, i'll check that out...

--Haerangil (talk) 15:15, February 20, 2020 (UTC)

Sauron image

I think a black and white image of the FOTR Sauron would be better. I know the deleted ROTK one makes his angelic status plain, but still he fell and became the second Dark Lord. He is a fallen Maia, twisted by his lust for mastery and desire to impose order by any means necessary.

The armor is reminiscent of Morgoth's and makes him more sinister and terryfying. It is also the most well known portrayal in adaptations beside the "Lidless Eye". And I have no doubt that in the film universe he fashioned it himself as a testimony of his might.

I know the books are vague about how he looked as Dark Lord of Mordor but still. The white one is too fair and may be used for his time as Annatar or when he came to ask pardon from Eonwe, but not to reflect the terror he inspires among his enemies as well as his servants.Alex of Star Wars (talk) 18:15, February 24, 2020 (UTC)

Well, i really generally tend to shy away from using movie stills...

and especially that depiction in the film intro is so unbearable hoaky.Often it's really hard to escape the fact that now all people associate a characters look with the pj movies, and i still honestly just don't understand why his depiction of a hardly recognizable black helmet should be better than his short angelic appearance.After all it's probably his "real" form.--Haerangil (talk) 18:27, February 24, 2020 (UTC)

Card Games

LotR card games: reffering tou yours last update in LotR LCG card game - both games LCG and TCG are two different games (TCG is/was morelikely collectible game with trading market arround it, so I'm deleting yours last update  in 

https://notionclubarchives.fandom.com/wiki/The_Lord_Of_The_Rings:_The_Card_Game article when have been added refferenc to TCG game characters list.

i do not understand.The characters of this list seem to be exactly the same as those who appear in the game mentioned in the article... Iarion, Thaurdir, Mughash...

i guess it must be the same game.Thei're neither from meccg nor from deciphers lotr ccg. The Lord of the Rings: TCG Characters --Haerangil (talk) 09:53, March 4, 2020 (UTC)


Those are not the same games - belive me ;), I know it because i play LCG recently. It looks like to me that the authors, brought some elements, features (in some cases only naming) from previous game to the next game.

there are 3 card games which I recognize - each of them IS NOT continuity or 2nd edition of previous one: 1. M-E CCG 1995 - 1998:  Middle-earth Collectible Card Game (MECCG)  (i know it only from internet) 2. LotR TCG 2001 - 2007: The Lord of the Rings Trading Card Game  (I have few decks) This on with artworks (screanshots from the movie) was related to the Movie Trilogy. 3. LotR LCG 2011 - till now: The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game (I'm geek of it) Sonofthewild (talk) 12:11, March 4, 2020 (UTC)

Yes i know.It seems i had confused lotr tcg and lotr lcg.

I tried to correct that, there are now categories for characters from all three games:

Ok?

--Haerangil (talk) 14:33, March 4, 2020 (UTC)

Sonofthewild (talk) 10:44, March 27, 2020 (UTC) yes

12 Mithrisars

I guess after all these years, we could never find the full 12 members. Have you found anything at all in your searches? Moran half valar (talk) 00:28, March 27, 2020 (UTC)

you know, i was never really interested to give a full list.I am very happy leaving the other members a mystery ... everybody can fill the gaps out after his own wishes and have some possible survivors if he needs some ancient cabal somewhere.I don't like it if every mystery is solved.--Haerangil (talk) 03:28, March 27, 2020 (UTC)
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