Haerangil why did you located Gamil-nâla at this image of region, near Nurad of north Ered Harmal ? 1. similar posted images of Nurad and khand did not marking Gamil-nâla here, is tjis location pointed out in some MERP module ?... 2. It contradicts to OM #4, where Gamil-nâla has been placed in hills of Kykurian Kyn(mansion munber 3 green)
If there wan't by any obstacles of mine lack of knowledge of possible occurrence in MERP module pointng on Nurad, can I deal with it according to OM#4?
- i did not know OM did place gamil-nala in the kyn! I haven't read most of the issues to be honest... i remember that when the moria module came out, where gamil-nala and the other places were mentioned first, i made a map and tried to locate all the mansions, kibil-tarag and gamil nala were in central middle-earth -possibly roughly halfway between the orocarni and the ironnhills - but far from each other - whatever far means -, as kibil-tarag was said to be on an insula in the north, i deduced that gamil-nala must be directly south of it and placed it in the northern "mountains of the wind" to which the ERED harmal of fenlons map are the closest equivalent... i probably didn't even consider the kyn hills because i didn't think of them as real mountains... but reconsidered they are probably in the same category as the iron hills so, yes, gamil-nala could have been in the kyn hills quite possibly.--Haerangil (talk) 22:29, July 4, 2019 (UTC)
- thinking again i remember that it was a difficult task to identify LOTRRPGS 7 tribes with the 7 tribes from MERP.I remember that i came to the conclusion that what comes closest to Sindirs folk from coda is Thelor's folk from MERP, and Thelor's tribe lives at Namagaluz, which is located above heb aaraan in lords of ME iii, so i possibly thought that Namagaluz and gamil-nala might have been the same place under two different names or at least very close to each other and chose to place them in the same mountain range.--Haerangil (talk) 22:35, July 4, 2019 (UTC)
- Sonofthewild (talk) 10:24, July 5, 2019 (UTC)
@sonofthewild Thank's tou yours description now I understood what have happened.
1. Firstly, lets take a look at references ;)
- Moria module 2nd ed. - Released 1994
- OM #4 with A Brief History of the Dwarven Mansions article - Released 2008, link: https://www.otherminds.net/downloads/other-minds/other-minds-magazine-issue-04.pdf/view (this article is not just a collection of new information based on educated guessing, but it is also, what's more important for this case, an overlay and gathering of all currently available information and the imposition of amendments aimed at eliminating inaccuracies)
- Yours marking of Gamil-nala on the map - 2017
- Mine mapping of 7 houses - Sindri & Thelor are one and the same person, :{| border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="1271"
- 2. Secondly, let's discuss it:
Now I know that You have made same thinking process in 2017 as Thomas Morvinsky did in 2008, but your's both conclusions are different. It seems that in this sentence is source of difference:
kibil-tarag and gamil nala were in central middle-earth -possibly roughly halfway between the orocarni and the ironnhills - but far from each other - whatever far means
Thomas Morvinsky assumed central middle-earth as Spin of Arda which is in central of ME, on it's north hemisphere. You assumed that central middle-earth must be central - OK, as well as literally centered (Ered Harmal are in central of ME, and they are allso centered to this land mass).
But look on the maps to OM#4 (points 2 and 3 - green colour) : Kibil-tarag and Gamil-nala > I would say that they are distant from each other for quite a distance, offcourse Ered Harmal are much more distant BUT we have to remember that both mansions were ancestral ones, so I don't think that one of thme would be placed out of motherhood mountain range after long wondering through plains and this argument suits me better in vision of Morvinsky than in Yours vision.
Mine opinion is that we should take under consideration MERP moduls with later on released OH/OM amendments so regarding Gamil-nala I would preefer to stay with Thomas Morvinsky
Secon issue is Namagaluz itself - after editing article of it, I have found discrepancy need to be resolved:
On wiki I have founded that Namagalûz was founded i early-T.A. by Threlin II who moved the remnants of the Ironfists further south from Nurunkhizdin.
whereas in OM#4 has been stated that: Námagalûz (brown 15) This mansion of Var’s (Blacklocks) people was founded relatively close to the old place of Narindazdûm. Even though the dragon occupying it had been killed by a Dragonslayer in T.A. 2954, the memories of the sack and occupation of Narindazdûm together with their memories of their past questionable deeds led Var’s people to the establishment of this new mansion rather than moving back into the old halls. In addition, the location of Námagalûz is strategically ideal to establish contacts with the West through its location on a river that leads to the Sea of Rhûn. The mansion was founded in Fourth Age 31. Though modest in size (compared to Nargubraz), it served Var’s people well in this period. So it means that we have one name for two different mansions, clue is to resolve source reference where has been writen that Threlin II founded Namagaluz >> do you know where it has been stated in reference material?)
- another issue: We have history and description of Gamil-nala (Ironfists) from OM4 and similar history of Kheled-nâla (Ironfists) from this wiki - it looks for me that this is one and the same mansion >> do you know where it has been stated in reference material history for Kheled-nâla?
- I have enlisted already 69 dwarven mansions in excel file with some additional data in several columns, right now I'm starting to look for errors and mismatches, probably couple more will comes out :/