User talk:Haerangil

Hi Haerangil -- we are excited to have Middle-earth Role Playing Wiki as part of the Wikia community!

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Best wishes, Catherine Munro

Hi there!
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Again, if you have any question for anything at all, don't hesitate to ask me!--Richard 20:54, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


 * thanx! I´ll start my userpage immediately... I´m still thinking of a logo Haerangil

Hi Haerangil

Wenn ich mich recht erinnere, warst Du vor vielen Jahren aktiv Schreibender beim Tolkienboard, einem der damals noch nicht soooo zahlreichen deutschen Tolkien-Foren, dessen Betreiber eine eigene Rolemaster-Version, genannt X-Master, entworfen hatte.

Jedenfalls hätte ich eine Frage zu Deinen ICE-Maps. Hast Du eine Gesamtkarte aus den verschiedenen Teilen der Karten aus dem Nordwesten Mittelerdes zusammengebaut (sieht sehr danach aus)? Falls ja, wäre ich sehr an dieser Gesamtkarte interessiert, denn ich habe selbst auch eine solche erstellt und es würde mich interessieren, wie Du damit verfahren bist, dass beim einfachen aneinanderreihen beträchtliche Lücken entstehen.

Also falls dem allen so sein sollte, würde ich mich über eine Mail von Dir an adi2001@gmx.net freuen.

Gruss, torben
 * Hi! Sorry die große Karte ist leider nicht mein Werk :-( . Ich bin mir nicht mehr Sicher woher ich sie habe aber ich hab vage im Kopf ,daß sie glaube ich mal Irgendwer in der Fanmodules Gruppe reingestellt hatte.--

Wikia Alliances
Hello Haerangil!

First off, thanks for participating in the Wikia Wide Fantasy Fellowship! We're bringing that web ring to a close. However, the event was such a success that we want to launch another opportunity to tie wiki communities closer together and promote all your wonderful content!

There are actually three alliances to choose from: Fantasy, Sci-Fi, and Heroes! All are broadly defined, so your wiki may fit. Check out the Alliance Page for more details and fill out the Choose Your Alliance Page to sign up!

Best, Jorge (profile)•(talk) 00:06, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

Maiarindi
Hey Haerangil, well first of all about the Maiarind, what you say is true, how many generations have to go by before the Maiar blood is worn out? I personally believe that to be considered a Maiarindi, you have to be half maiar, full maiar, or maybe two generations away from Maiar (one eighth maiar). We need to establish what a Maiarindi really is, do you have any ICE books that specifically define this? Also, we should try to flush out the MERP characters and the Maiar pages first, and go at it in a systematic pattern. Don't you think that will make this wiki more efficient? Anyways, let me know your thoughts. Also, what is the Great Ocean Sun fish and can you post details on it?

Best regards,

Fellow GM gamer and roleplayer.
 * Hi there! That fish is mentioned as a mythical creature of the Haradrim, i believe in Pirates of Pelargir, I'll look it up later.I don't know much about the Maiarindi, it's almost all a synthesis of what Tolkien wrote about corporeal Maiar and their offspring and what he wrote about the Valarindi in his early scripts, and hints about Maia-offspring scattered about ICE's work. I don't know if they have specified that in any of their books... I#m still making progress in re-reading the second Edition.If you have any ideas for flushing out the character pages and Ideas about a systematic pattern., let me know...

so far I used the hierarchy: Character-people-Ainur-Maiar.--Haerangil (talk) 07:12, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

Sounds good Haerangil, I'll keep posting what I can find. I have some of the 2nd edition books but not all unfortunately. Also, do you know if ICE/MERPS ever came out with stats for Badger Brock or his kids? Just a question, maybe I overlooked something in the 2nd editions or I am missing a couple of books that might have that information. Lastly, should Beorn the Ancient be classified as a Maiar, Maiarindi, or both? Lyinule, is considered a Maiarind, isn't that the plural form like Maia is to Maiar? So Maiarind would be to Maiarindi? If so, then some Maia and Maiarind could be classified under both categories.

Good job on this wiki thus far Big H.

Best Regards,

Roleplayer.
 * I`ve looked it up... the proper singular Form of Maiarindi should be Maiarindë.Maiar is plural and Maia is singular.--Haerangil (talk) 15:59, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

Pictures
Hey dude, maybe it's rude of me to ask but I'm interested in knowing where you got those cool pictures of the Aukuag and Jelut and Qarsag from. I've been searching for them for a while but can't find them anywhere in the source books/OM magazine articles. 70.193.3.223 13:27, June 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not sure myself... I had a huge collection of old Illustrations on my old HD... Must have downloaded a set of old MERP illustrations years ago.Or maybe they're from old RM?--Haerangil (talk) 18:39, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * The Jelut und Aukuag are quite obviously from MECCG Cards... the Qarsag- I still can't remember.--Haerangil (talk) 18:40, July 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * Where do the maps come from?Fargoniac (talk) 00:46, November 24, 2013 (UTC)Fargoniac
 * Different Sources, but most are from the Fanmodules Yahoo-Group.Someone there created a HUGE amalgation of old MERP Maps and put them all into one big graphic.Most small regional maps i posted are fragments of that amalgation.Some of the coolest maps I've found are from the me-dem project www.me-dem.me.uk/, the most ugly maps were drawn by myself.--Haerangil (talk) 01:00, November 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * What about the maps such as the Central Tûr Betrak Detailed Map? Fargoniac (talk) 01:25, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * I can't say where that one is from. Somebody gave me a disc with tons of Stuff on it and I'm unable to say where everything came from.But it may be a scan from some old MERP module, possibly Greater Harad?--Haerangil (talk) 02:18, November 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * Could you upload the amalgamation to the wiki? Fargoniac (talk) 21:31, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think it's too big as a file.--Haerangil (talk) 17:28, November 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi there, I think I#ve found the maP YOU ASKED FOR on scribd :http://de.scribd.com/doc/58174895/MERP-Map-Northwestern-Middle-Earth-8000x5400 --Haerangil (talk) 18:17, December 17, 2013 (UTC)

Five Ringwraiths on Weathertop
Which five riders were on Weathertop. (Matthew Bowyer Fan (talk) 09:21, August 22, 2013 (UTC))
 * Well at last according to the TCG Cards it were Number 1,34,6 and 7.--Haerangil (talk) 05:00, August 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * So: Ulaire Minya, Ulaire Nelya, Ulaire Cantea, Ulaire Enquea and Ulaire Otsea ?(Matthew Bowyer Fan (talk) 18:05, August 23, 2013 (UTC))
 * Yes I think so, the Decipher TCG names the twiglight Wraiths that way and I think on the MERP Cover depicting the weathertop scerne there are also the Witch-King, Indur and Dwar.--Haerangil (talk) 21:46, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Nazgûl
Hi Haerangil

Here's Quality Screencaps.

Link: http://screencapped.net/movie/lotr/displayimage.php?album=1&pid=58#top_display_media

Link: http://screencapped.net/movie/lotr/displayimage.php?album=1&pid=59#top_display_media

Link: http://screencapped.net/movie/lotr/displayimage.php?album=1&pid=60#top_display_media

(Matthew Bowyer Fan (talk) 16:53, September 21, 2013 (UTC))


 * Thank you, much appreciated. --Haerangil (talk) 04:57, September 23, 2013 (UTC)

Ringwraith
Which of the nine Nazgûl is this:

Link:http://screencapped.net/movie/lotr/displayimage.php?album=1&pid=2115#top_display_media

Link:http://screencapped.net/movie/lotr/displayimage.php?album=1&pid=2125#top_display_media

Link:http://screencapped.net/movie/lotr/displayimage.php?album=1&pid=2145#top_display_media

(Matthew Bowyer Fan (talk) 14:26, September 23, 2013 (UTC))


 * I think in unfinished tales Tolkien states that this was Khamûl... --Haerangil (talk) 17:41, September 23, 2013 (UTC)

Ringwraiths true undead appearance
Link:http://www.herr-der-ringe-film.de/v3/de/filme/galerie/kreaturen-monster/kreaturen-1_8.php

(Matthew Bowyer Fan (talk) 13:05, September 28, 2013 (UTC))
 * If I only knew which Nazgul is which ...--Haerangil (talk) 13:51, September 28, 2013 (UTC)

Uruk
How is name this Uruk? What happened to him?

Link:http://screencapped.net/movie/lotr/displayimage.php?album=3&pid=12349#top_display_media Link:http://screencapped.net/movie/lotr/thumbnails.php?album=3&page=59 (Matthew Bowyer Fan (talk) 16:44, September 29, 2013 (UTC))
 * Not sure.May be either Mauhur or Lugdush.--Haerangil (talk) 20:02, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

Uruk-Hai
And this is Uruk is Mauhur or Lugdush ?

Link:http://screencapped.net/movie/lotr/displayimage.php?album=4&pid=4811#top_display_media

Link:http://screencapped.net/movie/lotr/thumbnails.php?album=4&page=10

Link:http://screencapped.net/movie/lotr/displayimage.php?album=4&pid=4817#top_display_media

(Matthew Bowyer Fan (talk) 15:44, September 30, 2013 (UTC))
 * the Cardgame says it's Mauhúr.--Haerangil (talk) 14:36, October 2, 2013 (UTC)

Nazguls as kings of men
Hi Haerangil there is all nine nazguls as kings of men from Lord of the Rings Fellowship of the Ring.Photo is not from Film but from filming.

Link:https://picasaweb.google.com/102444060058418821034/LOTRMoviesCharactersActorsPrologueRingbearers#5506121910014535938

(Matthew Bowyer Fan (talk) 18:18, December 15, 2013 (UTC))


 * Thanks ! Do you also have pics of the seven Dwarven-Kings?--Haerangil (talk) 03:03, January 3, 2014 (UTC)

Hello!
Hello Haerangil,

I love what this wiki is attempting to do - organize both canon and non-canon (primarily non-canon) information regarding Tolkien's universe onto a single wiki.

Being well-versed in the canon of Tolkien, it's wonderful to discover non-canon explanations and/or expansions in areas where canon did not explain (i.e. - various characters, cultures, lands, races, etc.). It's all extremely fascinating.

As you've probably noticed, I've made various edits to the wiki (a lot of them regarding appearance - spacing, grammar, spelling, etc.). I have extensive experience in editing and administering two other wikis, and I'd like to help out in any way I can with regards to this wiki, too (that is, if you'd like assistance).

Hope all is well!

FMJ87 (talk) 01:23, January 3, 2014 (UTC)FMJ87


 * I wish to thank you for the many corrections and editions you made... you're welcome to join our work!--Haerangil (talk) 02:59, January 3, 2014 (UTC)

Question
Is this a roleplaying wiki?
 * To a large part -Yes! So far I guess it's 90% about Middle-Earth Roleplaying (MERP), but technically it's also open to other non-canon Publications about Middle-Earth like Video Games, Fan-Fiction or Table-top.--Haerangil (talk) 11:20, January 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh.
 * The Mordor Archer (talk) 21:29, January 25, 2014 (UTC)

Hi there!

Nice edit to my creation of information on Meachelburg. Your edit is far more consistent with the geopolitical creation of the area than my own. I named it according to the map created by ICE materials. I did want to point out that your tag name for the town, and the map name for the town, do not match.

All three names could be explained by linguistic shift, though a line stating such could explain to the reader the differences in the names.

GammaGM (talk) 23:51, February 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * I#m Sorry... The article already existed under the different tag...

Maethelburg was the correct term, I took the infos from the MERP Campaign -Atlas... Machelburg must be a misread.Mathlaburg is an alternbative form that appears in the Inland Sea module and Methelburg should be the correct spelling as Tolkien most often changed anglo-saxon Æ into E instead of ae (for example Elfwine instead of Aelfwine). I#m not sure which form to use... probably Maethelburg would be the best term as it is the form used in the ICE Books, although Methelburg would be more consistant with Tolkien's forms of Rohirric.--Haerangil (talk) 20:15, February 3, 2014 (UTC)

Seven Dwarf Lords
Sorry For Late Answer. I do not own this photos. All rights are of the copyright owner.

Link:https://picasaweb.google.com/102444060058418821034/LOTRMoviesCharactersActorsPrologueRingbearers#5506119617790686658 Link:https://picasaweb.google.com/102444060058418821034/LOTRMoviesCharactersActorsPrologueRingbearers#5506119704004545458 Link:https://picasaweb.google.com/102444060058418821034/LOTRMoviesCharactersActorsPrologueRingbearers#5506119718203880626 Link:https://picasaweb.google.com/102444060058418821034/LOTRMoviesCharactersActorsPrologueRingbearers#5506119807880833794 Link:https://picasaweb.google.com/102444060058418821034/LOTRMoviesCharactersActorsPrologueRingbearers#5506119829754782034 Link:https://picasaweb.google.com/102444060058418821034/LOTRMoviesCharactersActorsPrologueRingbearers#5506119844649225874 Link:https://picasaweb.google.com/102444060058418821034/LOTRMoviesCharactersActorsPrologueRingbearers#5506119849289687298 Link:https://picasaweb.google.com/102444060058418821034/LOTRMoviesCharactersActorsPrologueRingbearers#5506119893998028690 (Matthew Bowyer Fan (talk) 19:38, February 22, 2014 (UTC))
 * Thank you! too bad there are no better pictures of Malin, Darsha and Riimukäsi...--Haerangil (talk) 17:16, May 9, 2014 (UTC)

Question on maps
Hi There!

Thx for having created this wonderful wiki, which I use everyday.

I have a question. In the webpage of the High-Pass ([//merp.wikia.com/wiki/High-Pass http://merp.wikia.com/wiki/High-Pass]) I see two images. The second one comes from the ICE module, "The Goblin Gate". But the first one? I recognize the most recent ICE style of fonts, but do not identify as coming from any module (and I have all of them!).

Thank you.

---

Jjjustel
 * I'm sorry but I can't give sources for many of my pics, because they're from a collection somebody gave me on an old CD and I don't know where he has them from.I know that many are from old MERP books and a few are probably from Rolemaster books.The Map you aks about might be from a Tolkien/ME Quest Book I guess, but I#m not sure about it.--Haerangil (talk) 11:30, May 9, 2014 (UTC)

Forums
Hey Haerangil, is there a forum website that answers questions about ICE/MERP characters? Also have you found anything else on Agonar's staff? That is all I need besides who bore the Amulet of True Channels. Wasn't it that Hermit in the Utter South who had a construct working for him? Moran half valar (talk) 17:46, May 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry I don't know.... but of course you could try at merp.com or at the fanmodules yahoo-Group.--Haerangil (talk) 18:06, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

Fourth Age Factions
Hey Haerangil, I would be lying if I stated that I knew a lot about the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, and Seventh ages. I don't have those books apparently--however, I am comfortable with the other faction being like an Evil Spartan faction, I think that fits! Also, Alatar and Pallando's factions should be flushed out in the Fourth Age, and Durin VII should have a big force too, along with Gimli's kingdom perhaps... Moran half valar (talk) 17:48, July 27, 2014 (UTC)
 * The mentioned factions are from the FO 1000 scenario, a long time after Gimli's Kingdom and probably after Durin VII and Alarar & Pallando.--Haerangil (talk) 09:22, July 28, 2014 (UTC)

A Question
Are there any books/resources on MERP languages still being published?

Fargoniac (talk) 02:04, December 18, 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi there! No, all official MERP Publications have been out of print for decades, however there's a small but quite dedicated fan community who kep on working on exploring Middle-Earth and much of their work is based on MERP.I`ve already added a few of the newer developements under languages, and I had to do quite some retcon work.For example check out Fanmodules on Yahoo, Lindefirion, Guild Companion, Other Minds or Hall of Fire on the web.Some work has also been published on websites as such as scribd...--Haerangil (talk) 14:43, December 18, 2014 (UTC)


 * Which fan-works specifically cover languages?Fargoniac (talk) 21:57, December 18, 2014 (UTC)

I As far as I know Lindefirion has an extended Page about Languages and Cultures and the Fan Modules Group has also published some documents about Language. A great article about Nandorin, including a broad wordlist and guidelines to grammer was published by the Other Hands Magazine Issue #28.--Haerangil (talk) 11:02, December 19, 2014 (UTC)

Edits
Hi! Thanks for the welcome! I'm glad to be here! I hope you like the edits I make! SuperGrantZilla (talk) 23:28, January 1, 2015 (UTC)

So, what did you think of the edit for the Easterling language page so far?SuperGrantZilla (talk) 23:35, January 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * They're a welcome contribution.--Haerangil (talk) 11:34, January 2, 2015 (UTC)


 * I hope some of my edits weren't too much of a bother! I got a little enthusiastic and willing to show off! SuperGrantZilla (talk) 07:34, January 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * Not at all. So far I felt that the language section of this Wiki was a bit underrepresentated in contrast to scenarios, Places or Characters.--Haerangil (talk) 09:56, January 3, 2015 (UTC)

Hi! could you tell me what is the place were the Ruler of Khand lives?
 * Good Question. The BfME mentions a "Vangaris" as King of Khand, but according to their scenario there were several Kings, not just one.Semewhere they also mention a Keiseimu, though it's not sure if He's a King.Fanfic mentions a Yumruk and an Arkish, and an Ûvatha IX who was supposedly murdered by Yumruk.Arkish was supposed to have lived around 2980 TA, Yumruk was a vassal of Margoz of Rhun about the time of the WoTR, ... I guess there were several Kings and some internal strife that involved Vangaris, Yumruk and Uvatha IX... The old Capital was Ammu Khand, later it was Laorki... but that was in the 16th century... City names in khand might have changed after one and a half century... At least that Vanragis rules from a capital called ankruz, but it might have been a lesser regional capital of Surak-Khand too...--Haerangil (talk) 20:05, January 10, 2015 (UTC)

Haerangil, I have a question... that Orcs and Uruks from the battle of pelennor fields (Lufthak, Gartor, Argdush and the other ones) are fanom? Also the Moria Goblins called Drisnak, Nushdrak, Huzghash, Gharsh and the others are fanom? Because a user called Spenpiano from Lord of the Rings Wiki thought that they were real and created those pages there... I want to know if they are fanom or are from some game.
 * Well, Drisnak, Gharsh, Yuithrech, Grimbosh, Gazmog etc. are from Interplay's Lord of The Rings Game I&II, Luftak, Gartor and Argdush are minor Captains from LOTR SBG Scenarios, some other Characters are from LOTRO, Borgthaur, Flurg and Gurbash are Quest Game, Euog, Baugur and Doeth are MECCG and Grishlug,Ugnar, Mog, Lughur, and Radluk are Lotr RPG. So they are all non-canon but not Fanon per se.The Only fanon characters I added were Urzog, Bolingul, Guritz, Dror, Gordmul, Gorkin, Ogslap and Maul, though i didn't create them... they are from fanfic I´ve found on the WEB or MODS.I see it's important to add references for all characters to identify where they are from. I'm working on that but it'll take some time concerning the sheer mass of Characters this Wiki already covers.-Haerangil (talk) 06:04, February 13, 2015 (UTC)

''Mae govannen mellon! Ni Elaran, end Lymrandir estant. Ni "Tolkienor" 'adron ah ieston echadi delias talven or MERP. ''"Well met friend! I'm Star-King, also called Shadow-Pilgrim. I'm a fellow Tolkienist and I wish to shape a game based on MERP."

I was wondering if I could somehow contact you for your opinion on it. I'm trying to combine The New Shadow and Dagor Dagorath for a forum boards game with FRP elements. It's quite a big project for me. I hope you can see this.

Novaer! "Farewell!" Lymrandir (talk) 01:53, April 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, why not... I´ve quit Roleplaying quite some years ago and now i`m more dedicated to preserve the old ICE/MERP Backgrounds and trying to keep some kind of continuity with the other Versions of ME. But why not, if i find time...--Haerangil (talk) 13:53, April 1, 2015 (UTC)

Great! Alright then, is there a way that I can contact you without using this confusing page? We can use emails if you would prefer? I will include a link to my tumblr account for both of our anonymities' sake (and don't worry, I'm not one of those strange gif lovers). As far as I know, its "ask system" allows anyone to write to the blog owner without registration. You can click here.

Happy Easter
Hope you are enjoying your time Haerangil. Take it easy and thanks for the continuing edits over the years!

Sincerely,

Moran half valar (talk) 20:36, April 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks alot! Same to you, Regards H. --Haerangil (talk) 12:15, April 6, 2015 (UTC)

Senator Kratti, Prince Ferris of Hathor, & Unknown individual raised by a Wizard
Hey Haerangil, do you have any information about the following characters listed above? Would you be opposed to writing their hypothetical stats and items? Thanks and let me know if you are against this, if they are listed in any books, please let me know. Thanks. Moran half valar (talk) 03:39, April 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * I just found those chars on the web... probably they're from some fanfic or forum RPG game.Don't have any more info than what i found on

http://www.geocities.ws/ldg5066/index-2.html They seemingly weren't too serious... taking pics of brad pitt for Prince Ferris and calling the Hathorians "cool surfer Boys".But maybe inspiring though.--Haerangil (talk) 12:22, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

This was a really odd site, so the names are just made up without any ICE/MERP source. Okay, thanks. Moran half valar (talk) 15:48, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

Hey Haerangil, I think I am going to flush out Moran's companions, I wanted to run the sales pitch by you first though. I think Droggo should not be offliated with any of the companions listed in the Ardor book, I feel that Senator Kratti, Prince Ferris, Boah Agonar, and Princess Eldanar all work for the profiles of the Kirani Noble/Senator, Prince of Hathor, Son of other Ardor members, and Princess of Taaliraan. But who should be the one that is adopted and raised by a murdered mage? I was thinking that Sacha could actually fit this profile. Being a Maia and using her in the campaign, it would make sense that she would be an adoptive child of Hathor (God) and Anorel. If not, then who would you say?

Lastly, I have done much research on Droggo's companions and I can't think of anyone that would have gone along with him to Ardor except Naug II and Ayitula. But that is because they were travelling back to the east anyways, Most likely Wonir and Boah had met Droggo during the events of the Trollshaws and helped him set up in the swamps of Ganesh. Boah Agonar is listed multiple times thoughout ICE/MERP series, and in Ardor he is listed with Camring and Taurclax--so not only was he spying on the whereabouts of Sauron and Mordor, but he was also spying on Ardor for the Guild of Elements.

So in conclusion, is there anyone that you can think of that represented the adoptive person raised by a wizard? I am inclined to put down Sacha. As for the final member--I would like to include Naug II, but I don't know if he actually travelled down there--I know eventually he has to get back to Rurrik. But I think he or Ayitula would have been there, maybe Ayitula as a backup member, given that she was exiled from her home in the first place.

Let me know your thoughts and gripes. If you have any ideas, please let me know.

Sincerely,

Moran half valar (talk) 18:58, April 20, 2015 (UTC)


 * I think a Dwarf would fit pretty well.Sacha, I´m not sure about another Maia character... personally I´d place her in the Undying lands.--Haerangil (talk) 18:15, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

My Message
Did you read my above message? And awesome job on the banners! Where did you find all of them? Moran half valar (talk) 15:47, April 21, 2015 (UTC)


 * That wasn't me... thanks to user Enanoakd.--Haerangil (talk) 18:16, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

All Caught Up
I think you and I are all caught up on messages. I think a Dwarf could not be adopted by an Elvish wizard--now a Maiar/Fairy, Elf, Half-Elf, or Human is plausible--could Trevor Arain or Miraj be the adoptive child? If you don't know, I think I'll just go with Sacha given that Hathor and Anorel were both fire spirits and there are plenty of fairy creatures running around in the early Third Age anyways.

The only Dwarf that may have went on the journey with Droggo and Moran would have to be Naug II, but I don't know if you have any sources or any footnotes that justify him being in or going to Ardor. Moran half valar (talk) 19:03, April 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Maybe Boah could have been the adopted Child? I Naug was a Stonefoot... I think a Blacklock would fit better to the utter south, on the other hands The two far-eastern houses were had strong ties. Naug could well have joined a band of Barkashad active in the Tur betark.--Haerangil (talk) 19:32, April 21, 2015 (UTC)


 * No, Boah fits more under Yavakamba and Featur I child, how else could he have infiltrated Camring and Taurclax unless he had the blessings of the Council? And Yavakamba being the on the Council and secretly siding with Featur I and the Guild makes him a perfect fit. Plus, since he goes with Droggo to the trollshaws and the north--it makes sense as he is covering up as a servant to Sauron as well. Which is how he probably met Droggo and Wonir in the first place. Moran half valar (talk) 21:23, April 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Just that he probably didn't meet Droggo in the north, since the nimblefingers were said to be a clan of wild hobbits from the south... and droggo is said to have been raised in geshaan.So who else could it be? Maybe Droggo, Kratti or Aranlys? --Haerangil (talk) 05:50, April 22, 2015 (UTC)


 * Okay, I'll list Droggo as the one being raised by a mage to the South. I'll keep Sacha in as well just for female characters, and I guess any of Droggo's companions then (preferably Naug and Ayitula could have worked with him in the South as well. Also, do you have any stats, references, links to Kratti? Moran half valar (talk) 16:20, April 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * No.--Haerangil (talk) 16:44, April 22, 2015 (UTC)


 * You know, maybe we'll list him as the other bearer of the Amulet of True Channels. I mean, being a Senator, he would have more holy/cleric like abilities...right? Or be of more of a magic character type, since Senators don't do much...I take back what I said about holy/clerics. Pardon me for my foolishness! Moran half valar (talk) 16:59, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Organization
Hey Haerangil, is there any way for you to organize some of the characters in the First, Second, and Third age better? Like list of Orcs of the First Age, and all the names are under there, list of men, and all the First age men are under there--kinda like Tolkien Gateway or LOTR wiki? I think this would be easier to navigate through. Not just for myself, but for others reading as well. Moran half valar (talk) 20:35, June 19, 2015 (UTC)
 * probably, but that would take some time--Haerangil (talk) 11:01, June 20, 2015 (UTC)

Please check Uslak. I was added better photo.
 * Hi ! Yes, that pic is way better.Thank you... --Haerangil (talk) 21:23, September 27, 2015 (UTC)

Rules for new members?
Hi Haerangil,

Thanks for the welcome. As I use this wiki regularly, I feel I should contribute somehow. Is there a set of rules I should know about? Specifically, I am currently working on fleshing out the Sarn Settlements, and am using a lot of the original source work from MERP and T Morwinsky as the foundation to lay my own original stuff on top of. Is this acceptable, or will I be breaking a written (or unwritten) rule of this wiki?

Thanks in advance,

1way2rock (talk) 10:57, March 20, 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi There! Well no official rules so far, only communication between the different contributors. I'd say there's a somewhat unofficial hierarchy by canon... LotR, Hobbit and Silmarillion first, then HoME, then MERP, then everything else... on and off I had to retcon something or change an article in one way or another to make it fit better into the picture... took some efforts to try to harmonize stuff from MERP with Lotr Tabletop and Lotro for example... but after all... it's still the same world.So if you want to flesh out things... I guess you're free to do whatever you want as long as you try to look after the unofficial canon hierarchy (Legendarium first).--Haerangil (talk) 14:38, March 20, 2016 (UTC)

Langurian Kyn
Hi there! First of all, thanks for correct my gramatical and ortographic typos. English is not my native tongue so I tend to have mistakes.

Second, I saw you edited the info I added about the Langur tribe. For the proximity of name I thought they could be from the land of Y-Lústurangsur, but you changed it to Langurian Kyn. Seems ok for me (I actually don't know from where the Langur came from). My question is where would be that land on the traditional MERP map?

Thanks in advance!

Enanoakd (talk) 17:41, April 19, 2016 (UTC)
 * No problem.English is only my second language and I too, still make a lot of mistakes...
 * the langurian Kyn... I remember to have read that name in some

MERP or RM book, possibly it was mentioned in some line about an obscure artifact in Treasures of ME or some NPC short description. I don't know if it was ever mentioned again or if it was established where that land should be located.Personally i feel the name sounds much like Kykurian Kyn and possibly is a neighbouring region. It would also seem allright if you place langurian kyn right in the middle between Kukurian kyn and Lusturangsur, as you are right with the similarity to the latter name..--Haerangil (talk) 21:52, April 19, 2016 (UTC)




 * Great! I just added the page. If you think there's something to change, just edit it, and if so, I'll change the image. Thanks!


 * Enanoakd (talk) 13:28, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

Calmiriel
Check it out! I think you're gonna love it!--Spenpiano (talk) 18:23, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

Upload
I've already uploaded a few more pictures that I think you'll like. Let me know if you anything.--Spenpiano (talk) 21:02, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

Middle-earth Wikis
Mae Govannen!

I'm an Administrator (but not a Wiki long-timer like you) over from the Lord of the Rings Wiki, and I'm here to let you know that your Wiki has become a part of the Wikia-grouping "Middle-earth Wikis", of which there are five - meaning that you, Haerangil the Admin, may add this new template to the bottom of the homepage.

Have a great week, and do keep up the amazing amount of work you got going around here. ' HiddenVale -   TalkPage ' 19:09, July 25, 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi there! Thanks for your support!--Haerangil (talk) 23:56, July 25, 2016 (UTC)

You're welcome :)

Were you not planning on adding the template to the Main page? ' HiddenVale -   TalkPage ' 03:07, July 28, 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes.I´m not good at this template thing so it took me some while to figure out how...--Haerangil (talk) 05:41, July 28, 2016 (UTC)

Dagorwaith Project
Hi there ... I am astonished by the depth of Your wiki... it is absolutely wonderful. I came across a project called Dagorwaith and I am trying to revive the project.

I was wonderring if you could possibly help to promote it

TheSlovakPatriot (talk) 14:34, August 18, 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't know if I can. I'm pretty busy at keeping the MERP Wiki Project alive, but I´ll help if i can. regards, Haerangil.--Haerangil (talk) 18:35, August 18, 2016 (UTC)


 * Alright thats fine...I was also wonderring if you have any knowledge of the counties map of Lamedon and Anfalas (as I found something for Anórien, Ithilien, Lebennin and Belfalas). It would help me very much
 * TheSlovakPatriot (talk) 20:42, August 20, 2016 (UTC)
 * Well there are maps of both I used to illustrate the articles for both regions.They are taken from Pete Fenlon's very detailed maps for the MERP RPG.--Haerangil (talk) 20:56, August 20, 2016 (UTC)

Yahoo Fanmodules Question
Haerangil,

First off, let me say that this is an amazing wiki you've put together here.

I've been looking into the eastern peoples of middle earth and it seems as though a lot of the sources are the yahoo fanmodules.

Do you know if the yahoo group still active? Or where I could access their modules?

Thank you!

Lydsudj (talk) 16:27, November 6, 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi there! I believe the Group is still active and you can find their documents on their site https://beta.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/fan-modules/info .Cheers Haerangil --Haerangil (talk)


 * Can people without a Yahoo account join the group? I have a Google email, so I don't know if I can join. Fargoniac (talk) 22:34, December 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't know for sure.To be honest it#s been quite a while that I've been active on the Fanmodules Group..--Haerangil (talk) 02:33, December 27, 2016 (UTC)

Osgiliath Places of Note
Hi, could there be created some areas of Osgiliath? For example like: Forum of Turambar, Gardens of Beleganor, Palatium etc. ? I know nothing about them yet I would like read some info and image if there's. Cheers! --Matthew Bowyer Fan (talk) 21:53, December 10, 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi there! I remember that most of these places were found either in LOTRO or in the MERP Sourcebooks for Southern Gondor.Right now I don't have the time to add more precise descriptions of the mentioned places, but I'll add them as soon as i can.--Haerangil (talk) 22:48, December 12, 2016 (UTC)

Ok, Thanks. --Matthew Bowyer Fan (talk) 20:36, December 17, 2016 (UTC)

Which Nazgûl
Hi, I have q:

Which Nazgûl is this one:

Link:http://caps.pictures/200/2-lotr-two-towers/full/lotr2-movie-screencaps.com-23840.jpg

--Matthew Bowyer Fan (talk) 07:59, January 25, 2017 (UTC)
 * Good question. As it is a non-book scene there#s hardly any evidence who it could have been.If we follow MERP it could have been Hoarmurath, who briefly had returned to search for the ring while the Witch-king attacked Minas Tirith, or it could have been Akhorahil who was one of the commanders later at the Pelennor fields - so he would have been near Osgiliath, but it also could have been Indur, who was at Osgiliath too and oversaw the Southron-Mumakil groups.--Haerangil (talk) 20:01, January 26, 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, so much for answer.

And this?

Link:http://caps.pictures/200/2-lotr-two-towers/full/lotr2-movie-screencaps.com-5779.jpg

--Matthew Bowyer Fan (talk) 21:08, January 26, 2017 (UTC)

--Again not answer from the Books. Following MERP it could be Hoarmurath, who briefly had returned to search for the ring.Akhorahil and Indur were busy at Osgiliath or Minas Morgul, the others were at Barad-Dûr at the time. But again, this is only MERP, not Tolkien, so it's just conjecture.--Haerangil (talk) 23:33, January 29, 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, if we follow MERP, who are these?

Link:http://caps.pictures/200/1-lotr-fellowship/full/lotr1-movie-screencaps.com-8550.jpg


 * It couldn't be Khamûl, so decipher must be wrong.

Link:http://caps.pictures/200/1-lotr-fellowship/full/lotr1-movie-screencaps.com-8549.jpg


 * It couldn't be Adûnaphel, so again decipher is wrong.

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/merp/images/8/84/Hoarmurath2.jpg/revision/20160531112118


 * It couldn't be Hôarmûrath so once more, decipher is wrong.

I have in computer gallery where I'm saving Nazgûls so I wonder.


 * Why couldn't it be Hoarmurath, Adunaphel or Khamûl? They would have been there at Weathertop.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-J8Ii4mO6uuQ/Ty68MmNwXYI/AAAAAAAAA8I/0VZwmAZBzhg/s1600/MERP2eCover.jpg This Illustration by Angus McBride definitely intends the Witch-king and Indûr.--Haerangil (talk) 20:34, January 30, 2017 (UTC)

I thought that if we follow MERP: Dwar, the Witch-King, Akhorahil, Indur and Ren attacked the Company on Weathertop. --Matthew Bowyer Fan (talk) 14:54, January 31, 2017 (UTC)
 * Between the Attack on Crickhollow and Frodo at the Weathertop there were six days.Well at waethertop there were five Nazgul, one of them the Witch-king.Khamûl, Adûnaphel, Hoarmurath and Indur could quite be possibilities.--Haerangil (talk) 19:18, January 31, 2017 (UTC)

Here is something for you if you don't have it yet.

Link:http://media.moddb.com/images/members/1/762/761504/hobbitchronicles6_spread.jpg

--Matthew Bowyer Fan (talk) 08:42, February 2, 2017 (UTC)


 * Taqnx a lot!--Haerangil (talk) 17:54, February 2, 2017 (UTC)

Dearest Apology
Hello, its been a year since I've waited to deeply apologize for the errors and mistakes that happened. I don't wish to make excuses, but I what I want is some help.--Spenpiano (talk) 13:45, June 26, 2017 (UTC)

Check Please
Hi again, is it okay if you can check the pages I created. I just want to know if I did them right. If I missed something, let me know. I be glad to fix it.--Spenpiano (talk) 04:58, June 29, 2017 (UTC)
 * Manlow Clady
 * Etherly Cobble
 * Tuggle Cooper
 * Theodwine Emnetsun
 * Precious Gorbuck
 * Bert Greenshins
 * Eustace Grubb
 * Tully Hawkswell
 * Arteveld Holman
 * Dahlia North-Took
 * Falco North-Took
 * Renadil Pirasin
 * Babbin Quillfoyle
 * Feanan Redwing
 * Ordelred Took
 * Svinder Tossel

And more:
 * Arvoreg
 * Faramond Baggins
 * Inigo Baggins
 * Benrodir
 * Orlando Brandybuck
 * Prospero Brandybuck
 * Orlando Burrows
 * Cosimo Chubb
 * Garathon
 * Orlando Grubb
 * Inigo Grubb-Took
 * Heorulf
 * Cosimo Hornblower
 * Ingrim
 * Wag Muncy
 * Rothinel
 * Tobias Smygrave
 * Drogo Took
 * Faramond Took
 * Melba Took
 * Mungo Took
 * Prospero Took
 * Uffo Took


 * It's okay, i really didn't like the decision but after many times i contacted you and had to rework your articles i felt i had little choice. So if you wish to rework your articles and posts you of course can do that. I just honestly ask you to base your articles on honest research and not just put up stubs with movie stills and little content or articles which cite Tolkien or secondary work as references but which have lotle or nothing to do with the subject.Such sort of contribution just wastes my small resources of time i#d like I#d rather to invest otherwise by making this wikia better.--Haerangil (talk) 22:38, June 29, 2017 (UTC)

Thank you :)

Source and Reference Check

 * I checked also, and I've been concentrating on what I can find. Its the reason why I always ask for help.--Spenpiano (talk) 23:08, July 1, 2017 (UTC)
 * That's why i created the characters section. When i'm looking for references for a specific Character I use the Wiki search, if the name if found i see which works might contain information about the character, then i take the book and look after it.It usually works... for example i find Leofric in Lord of the Rings CCG Characters, Lord of the Rings Online Characters, Lord of the Rings Trilogy Characters, and MERP Characters. In MERP Chatracters i find the name mentioned in Riders of Rohan... then i take the books/works and read and compare, then i write an article and add references.I don't invent fanfic characters just as an excuse to add a nice picture and a short stub that is of little use for roleplayers who may wish to use this Wikia for improvisng a session.--Haerangil (talk) 00:02, July 2, 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, I think I'm starting to get the picture, but I still have a puzzled side.--Spenpiano (talk) 00:06, July 2, 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your help :)--Spenpiano (talk) 00:38, July 2, 2017 (UTC)
 * No problem. I acknowledge you're making progress and your contributions are improving.--Haerangil (talk) 20:34, July 2, 2017 (UTC)

Swanhild
I think I like the name Swanhild. Seems to be perfect name.--Spenpiano (talk) 23:35, July 1, 2017 (UTC)

New Pages
Check out the new pages I made. Hope I did it right. Let me know if there are any errors. :)--Spenpiano (talk) 01:22, July 4, 2017 (UTC)

Míriel of the Woodland Realm
Check out this image for Míriel of the Woodland Realm. I think you'll like it. :)--Spenpiano (talk) 18:08, July 4, 2017 (UTC)

New Pages

 * Please check Vigo Took and Olo Bolger.

Artan the fair
I found an image that can be perfect for the page Artan.

Recreated
Hi Haerangil, I just want to tell you that I recreated the page Olo Bolger. Hoping if you can check and see if I did this right. I just want to be 100% sure. Let me know.--Spenpiano (talk) 03:49, July 5, 2017 (UTC)

Also there's more. Please check--Spenpiano (talk) 18:50, July 5, 2017 (UTC)

Here are the list of pages that I hope for you to check and see if I did right:
 * Rhimlath
 * Rhimdir
 * Rhimbron
 * Marculf
 * Ilmandur
 * Ildramir
 * Máraher
 * Lughorn
 * Inram the Tall
 * Herelaf
 * Galdrin
 * Guthrond
 * Ellonel
 * Dirgon
 * Duilas
 * Carandrian
 * Falborn
 * Elias Tobiasson
 * Derning
 * Cyneferth
 * Baragorn
 * Arami
 * Faragon
 * Aurvandil
 * Orlando Grubb
 * Olo Bolger

Let me know anytime. :)--Spenpiano (talk) 04:55, July 6, 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry but it has come to a point where i will delete articles that are false, redundant or lack content without further discussion.--Haerangil (talk) 23:31, July 9, 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the previous message. Even though, when these names are seen in pages, such as Longbottom, are they fanfic or are the sources somewhere online? That's what puzzles me the most.--Spenpiano (talk) 16:48, July 11, 2017 (UTC)

LOTRO
I added new pages of characters from The Lord of the Rings Online. Hoping you can see.--Spenpiano (talk) 01:41, July 13, 2017 (UTC)

New Images

 * Hi Haerangil, I created a new plage called Kemendur of Gondor. Please double check and make sure I did perfect. I also re-added some new images to previous pages.--Spenpiano (talk) 03:38, November 2, 2017 (UTC)

Haerangil, Spenpiano is leaving a lot of misinformation on here about the children of Anarion and even linking them with Suladan of the Third/Second Age. This dude obviously doesn't know jack about the lore. I would like him to stop bastardizing tolkien's work as it is becoming more of a hindrance than a help. Moran half valar (talk) 15:51, November 3, 2017 (UTC)

I already fixed this misinformation that I was not aware of about Anarion and his children. Just because I get confused between the lore and fanfic, doesn't mean I'm not hurting tolkien's work.--Spenpiano (talk) 16:20, November 3, 2017 (UTC)

Bérnwyn
Hi Haerangil, just want to tell you that the daughter of Helm Hammerhand is actually named Bérnwyn. The name was given in the Middle-Earth: Shadow of War.

Example:
 * https://shadowofwar.gamepedia.com/Helm_Hammerhand

I made a few alternatives on a few pages. I hope it'll do. Let me know if there's something wrong. I just want to make sure that I did this right.--Spenpiano (talk) 14:33, November 4, 2017 (UTC)


 * Okay. I can#t remember where the Name Freywyn came from, but it might have been mentioned in the TOR Sourcebook for Rohan, I#ll check it up, but if Shadows of War gives the name as Bernwyn that#s of course okay.--Haerangil (talk) 20:51, November 6, 2017 (UTC)

Images
Hi Haerangil, hope all is good. I brought in some new images that hope you'll like. Best wishes. :)--Spenpiano (talk) 21:00, November 8, 2017 (UTC)
 * To be honest i would prefer it if you do not use movie stills (not from Vikings, Game of Thrones, Mists of Avalon or ther) to illustrate Middle-Earth Articles...--Haerangil (talk) 21:24, November 17, 2017 (UTC)

Researching Articles
Hi, I know I have posted a lot of researched articles that were not very well and of course causing many problems and too much work for you to make the exact corrections. I just want to find out how many articles I can help fix.

Also, can you also check any other Fanfic pages I created. I want to be sure if I haven't done anything wrong again. Point is I truly want to be careful what I write for fanfiction. Please update me with any intel of problems I made and I can help fix it.--Spenpiano (talk) 21:39, November 12, 2017 (UTC)


 * I really want to ask you to write in past tense, as the Wikis background world is intended to be a fictional past. I also would ask you to do more research on the names you use. Nameforms should be in the language of the culture of it#s country of a language JRRT chose to represent it. So Rohirrim should have anglo-saxon names.Name forms such as Fiona or Northdene are inappropriate.--Haerangil (talk) 22:03, November 17, 2017 (UTC)
 * I see. Now I get what you want me to do. Sorry for putting the inappropriate names on this wikia (Fiona and Northdene). Do you know other anglo-saxon names to replace those names?--Spenpiano (talk) 13:40, November 21, 2017 (UTC)


 * Hey Spenpiano, you like doing fanfic and stuff. Why not finish up the World Eaters/Nameless Things pages. There is a lot of undone stuff there. Moran half valar (talk) 14:14, November 21, 2017 (UTC)


 * Fiona is a modern scottish name, Nordene i do not know. I suppose to replace Fiona with anglo-saxon "feán" and Nordene with Anglo-saxon "Northene". Bosworth-toller is a very good AS dictionary. http://bosworth.ff.cuni.cz/--Haerangil (talk) 11:26, January 5, 2018 (UTC)

Just to clarify
Just to clarify, is this wiki strictly for content from the MERP tabletop RPG and other roleplaying games based on Middle-Earth, or may we add our own original content and worldbuilding so long as it expands and doesn't conflict with the established lore of the wiki? I love worldbuilding and have created a sort of alternate history expanded Middle-Earth for fun, but I wonder if I could alter some of the lore for these places to better fit the canon established here and perhaps add the Rajian culture I have developed to the wiki or add/expand some random factions in less-populated areas of Middle-Earth. Just wanted to make sure before I did anything like that. Fargoniac (talk) 21:19, January 2, 2018 (UTC)

Right Images
Hi Haerangil, I think there's something you need to see. I found this site and it showed the nine images that belong to each Man who became the nine Nazgul.

Here's the site: http://www.thelandofshadow.com/the-nazgul-nine-men-of-power/

Let me know of anything on what you say about the site.--Spenpiano (talk) 23:50, January 17, 2018 (UTC)

Also I made some newly edits on the pages Adûnaphel and Morgomir. Hope you'll check.--Spenpiano (talk) 03:04, January 20, 2018 (UTC)


 * I tend to reject or at last generally dislike the use of actual Photos for this Wiki... that´s why i have replaced many photos with reorked B/W images.--Haerangil (talk) 00:00, January 30, 2018 (UTC)

Snargab
I was able to make a couple of changes on the page Snargab. I hope I didn't do anything to ruin the page by any chance. If there is an in fact an issue or any past tense, please let me know, so I can re-fix it.--Spenpiano (talk) 02:48, February 10, 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you, i appreciate your efforts.--Haerangil (talk) 10:31, February 12, 2018 (UTC)

Talk Page
Hi, do you remember that we would write a line in the talk section of the article and we would discuss it?--Spenpiano (talk) 15:51, February 13, 2018 (UTC)
 * What´s up?--Haerangil (talk) 17:10, February 13, 2018 (UTC)

Angelica
Hi Haerangil, I just realized that I added the wrong pic for Angelica Baggins. So just to inform you, I added the right one.--Spenpiano (talk) 14:57, February 14, 2018 (UTC)

Middle Earth Wikis Template Question
Hello, Haerangil,

I added my wiki, Ardapedia, to the Middle-earth Wikis template on the home page.

I realised I shouldn't have without permission, and I saw that Hidden Vale had created it and I had to ask him. Do you want me to take it off?

-Sylvan Lord

It´s ok ;-)--Haerangil (talk) 11:16, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

Thanks :)

Eva
I know for sure I found that name in the LOTRO wiki and it showed the page of the character. However, if this name is inappropriate to this wiki, should it be changed?--Spenpiano (talk) 14:36, February 16, 2018 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily.If the Name represents a Westron Form it could have been used in Dunland.I don´t think we HAVE to change it.--Haerangil (talk) 21:01, February 19, 2018 (UTC)

Image Policy
Okay, I made some image changes to the pages Slith-Rat and Krashnak. Also, I am continuing to make the film images more graphic with white and black like you wanted.--Spenpiano (talk) 18:27, February 19, 2018 (UTC)
 * I also believe that Hazhbaz and Lugdrak have the same pics. They look identical.--Spenpiano (talk) 18:58, February 19, 2018 (UTC)
 * No.Their noses look a bit different so i don't think they need to be changed.--Haerangil (talk) 21:05, February 19, 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay understood. Oh and please check and let me know if I left any errors to new fanfic pages or others, and I'll fix them.--Spenpiano (talk) 06:09, February 20, 2018 (UTC)
 * sure.--Haerangil (talk) 08:14, February 20, 2018 (UTC)

Unnamed Characters

 * Hi, I just added new names in the Unnamed Characters. Hope they'll do. Feel free to check and see if I did it all correct.--Spenpiano (talk) 17:29, February 24, 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh and check the Dáma of Rohan.--Spenpiano (talk) 17:30, February 24, 2018 (UTC)
 * I really can#t understand why you add an article about an NPC from an RPG book you obviously have never even read. That Article had absolutely nothing to do with Dáma from the RPG book! And you even gave the MERP book as a reference... --Haerangil (talk) 11:14, February 25, 2018 (UTC)
 * I´d also like to advise you to keep the Order within the Unnamed Characters List."Textual Ghosts" are who are mentioned indirectly or whose existence is indicated, but who are not given Names in the Legendarium (or Movies for which i have the second category).Characters wo do NOT appear in the Legendarium but whose existence is SUPPOSED (by let´s say fanfic, or RPG Material, where the numerous siblings of Legolas come from) should be listed beneath"Assumed Characters".--Haerangil (talk) 11:31, February 25, 2018 (UTC)
 * Understood.--Spenpiano (talk) 14:51, February 25, 2018 (UTC)

Treason at Helm's Deep
Hi, I've been going online and trying to find info on these characters from "MERP:Treason at Helm's Deep"; Arodban, Cwellanbrand, Dáma Déorhere Dernmod, Dwimorthane, Ealdryhten, Eiffel, Eorling, Folcwine Gaznag, Hermgamel, Hermgarth, Herubrand, Herulf, Krina, Widwine. There doesn't seem to be anything. Just want to ask, can you provide me the short bios on these characters? Let me know A.S.A.P--Spenpiano (talk) 20:42, February 25, 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry, i´ve got that Module right here but i just don´t have the time to look it through.I will add the Charcters when i find time for it.right now i have other priorities. But an advice to you: I found it very effective to get the old MERP modules in PDF format (i have most of them as real books anyway) and convert them into searchable PDF or Word documents.--Haerangil (talk) 13:18, February 26, 2018 (UTC)
 * I understand. Thank you for your comply.--Spenpiano (talk) 13:24, February 26, 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay, so you say that Krina is a female orc? I'm going to ask first before the page is posted.--Spenpiano (talk) 18:24, February 26, 2018 (UTC)

TOR
Boss, I made a mistake. It turns out that I found out in The One Ring - Horselords of Rohan that the three unnamed daughters of Thengel and Morwen are Meril, Saewara, and Thaena. However, I also discovered in the LOTRO-Wiki site, that the character Fastred of Sutcorfts is the son of Théodhild, a sister of Théoden King. Heres what Fastred said: "I am of a proud bloodline - my mother is the daughter of the sister of Théoden King."--Spenpiano (talk) 13:22, February 26, 2018 (UTC)
 * yeah such inconsistancies are typical... they happen because authors of 2ndary works do not bother to arrange with each other. I´d take it the way Tolkien often does: some characters have two or more names. As Meril is a Sindarin Name I suppose it was her who was called "Theodhild" among her peers instead of her elvish Mother-name.--Haerangil (talk) 13:59, February 26, 2018 (UTC)

Blade of Galadriel
Hi, you're not going to believe this, but when I looked into Middle-Earth: Shadow of War - Blade of Galadriel. There were two twin human queens from an unknown land and accepted the Rings of Power from Sauron. Don't know their names, but since you have a great experience in this wikia site, do you know what land they come from. Its most possible the far east.--Spenpiano (talk) 19:08, February 26, 2018 (UTC)
 * The Story of Shadow of war is real BS most of the time.If i would adapt the story with those two Queens i´d make them lesser Ringwights.Don´t know which land they came from... the Urdar had a strong matriarch tradition.I suggest we wait until more of the storyline is revealed... have you seen the cutscenes so far?--Haerangil (talk) 19:30, February 26, 2018 (UTC)

MERP:Treason at Helm's Deep
I did it. I found the characters at last. Please check and see if I did each of those pages correctly. If I didn't, let me know and I'll fix it. Also, I had an accident with the MERP Characters. I have no idea what I did wrong cause I was just fixing a misspelled character and changed it to Dwimmerthane. That was all what I was doing. I am so sorry. I was trying to fix it.--Spenpiano (talk) 04:21, February 27, 2018 (UTC)
 * Wow! You really messed up that one!--Haerangil (talk) 12:58, February 27, 2018 (UTC)

RPG Character Check
Hi, hope all is good. For the character Daisy Bolger which I posted, I looked at the Council of Elrond RPG site and it showed that she was the daughter of Fredegar Bolger. The reference shows the site of it. Now I do not know if that is the right source. Please let me know if its correct or not.--Spenpiano (talk) 17:50, February 27, 2018 (UTC)

Image Swap
Now I know I was suppose to tell you about the Land of Shadow reference that I added in the Craklásh and Badzûrz. So I put the images from the Bolingúl and Gordmúl on Craklásh and Badzûrz since the Land of Shadow revealed their names. In order to not be confused, I added two new images on the Bolingúl and Gordmúl pages. I just hope these images will not be an issue. If there's something wrong and if you don't appreciate the swap, please let me know or like you said, you can put everything on the talk pages. I know I'm suppose to ask permission first, so I'm asking if its okay that these two news images can be added on the Bolingúl and Gordmúl pages?--Spenpiano (talk) 17:49, March 1, 2018 (UTC)

Information
Hi Haerangil, I just wanna say, please read this whole post, even though it looks long, because I really want you to read it (sorry if that sounded jerky).

So, I was looking at the Undead  page, and I saw that there are heaps and heaps of monsters of all different types, which just made me realize even more how much detail there is of middle-earth on this wiki. I know this is not a fanon wiki so all the info on here is from all different official role-playing games set in middle-earth. My question is, where does all this stuff come from. Yes, I know it's all from role-playing games of middle-earth, but how do you know about SO MUCH STUFF. When I search something from this wiki up on the internet, for example, Iron Skeletons from the Undead page I mentioned earlier, absolutely NOTHING come up about it. There is nothing or not much at all on the internet about most of the stuff on this wiki. There is not that much on the internet about MERP either.

I really like all this stuff because I REALLY like JRR Tolkien's world and I always want to know more about it, which means extremely detailed information about Middle-earth from sources like MERP is like a dream come true because I have always wanted to know so much more about Arda.

The only reason I know how amazing the MERP products are is because I found this awesome website with tons of free MERP PDF's on it for download.

Anyway, it's just amazing how much raw information regarding Middle-earth there is on this wiki.

A question, though, about the Undead page. In what role-playing game about middle-earth are those Iron Skeletons mentioned, and alot of those other strange monsters as well? Because I downloaded the MERP: Creatures of Middle-earth PDF, which is an A-Z of Middle-earth animals and monsters, and saw nothing about a lot of those monsters, so I'm guessing they are in other middle-earth role-playing games.

I just wanna know where all this stuff on this wiki comes from because I just want know. Yeah, that sounded really stupid, but I wanna know all this stuff about Middle-earth because I love JRR Tolien's world. I wanna see where it all comes from.

Because the MERP products are out of print now, everyday I get this bad feeling that all that information about Middle-earth is slowly slipping away, and if I don't act soon I'm never gonna get to even touch one of those old MERP books. I just don't have the money to buy that stuff. But hopefully I will have enough money soon. I wanna get those MERP books not to role-play but just read, lol. All that juicy information. Even though I have the PDF's, I can't print them bcause thay are too big and would cost too much to print, and not all the MERP books are on that website I download them from. Those books come kinda close, I think, to becoming sort of literature books with just information about Middle-earth, not entirely for role-playing.

So, where did those monsters in the Undead page come from? Especially the Iron Skeletons.

This wiki is truly awesome,

-Sylvan Lord

(I don't know how to do the thing with the time and the date and everything so i figured it's better noi to do it at all. sorry)

EDIT: Yeah, I know Adventures in Middle-earth just came out which is a whole new role-playing game set in Middle-earth but it is no where near as detailed and massive and expanded upon as MERP was. I am still gonna try and get the Adventures in Middle-earth books but they will never be as good as MERP.

By the way, I am writing this late at night so sorry for any tired spelling mistakes.
 * I vaguely remember that Iron Skeletons are from Rolemaster. I think one of the goals of this wiki should be to correct some of the missteps they made in MERP and RM and to help make their - often quite cool plots and fanon - fit better with JRRTs Legendarium.So in most cases the Articles on this Wiki already depart from the original MERP Stuff, as they are heavily edited and modified versions.--Haerangil (talk) 19:20, March 12, 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks :) And yeah, I think that MERP did a great job with Tolkien's world as well and I like to beleive that it's all canon.
 * Thanks :) And yeah, I think that MERP did a great job with Tolkien's world as well and I like to beleive that it's all canon.

MERP Fan Modules
Hey I have another question (sorry),

What are MERP Fan Modules? I see them referenced a lot but I can't find anything about them on the internet.

I did see that there is a Yahoo MERP Fan Modules website but I don't think it exists anymore because when I tried to go to it, it was gone.

I also can't find a list of MERP Fan modules on this wiki, so, if you are able, could you maybe provide a list of all the MERP Fan Modules?


 * Yes fan Modules was an active group once, as far as i can see they´re inactive by now. They have published some of their work on platforms like SCRIBD as far as i know. You can find a short list of those Books that i know of under MERP Characters, though there are a few more Fan Modules floating around on the Web. Personally I have few fanmodules as actual documents, Near Harad I, Bellakar, The Inland Sea, Aegan & Helcar Sael, Ardor/Mûmakan, Niali, Mag... but most of them are unfinished work in progress state and I know people did some work on the Blue Mountains, the Farthest East, Khand, the Seven Lands, The Iron Hills, Umbar

but i don´t have any information if these documents have ever been published partially or in a whole.--Haerangil (talk) 23:38, March 14, 2018 (UTC)

Do these fan modules have stuff for the Dark Lands and the Lands of the Sun? I'll rewrite the scenarios if they do. Moran half valar (talk) 16:00, March 15, 2018 (UTC)
 * I remember that Some people Actually DID work on at least maps for Southernesse, In Other Hands Magazine there was an overview article about Southernesse by a man called Norman Talbot, I tried to include it to this Wiki, but I had to change lots of things to adapt it and make it fit better with the canon. I also have a map of Southernesse by the Fanmodules Group, but i did not incorporate it yet, honestly i think it´s pretty crappy and the placenames are Sindarin- which is out of question. I KINDA adapted it as the middle-continent of the three southern landmasses on my revisited MERP map, but heavily changed the proportions.Easternesse/Sunland I do not know for sure, I have a VERY raw map which I -again- only partially adapted and heavily modified, but it has few details.--Haerangil (talk) 22:31, March 15, 2018 (UTC)

Then are you happy with the way I set up some of the scenarios? What do you feel should be at these places? Because canonically speaking, the only thing I think could be at the "Lands of the Sun" are Spirits of Arda and Numenorians (in Second Age and Third Age). That is the only canonical conclusion we have. No other community member here has offered any advice or said whether the scenarios I did were acceptable, but I felt I did a pretty good job incorporating the canon into Tolkien's realistic map. Moran half valar (talk) 01:11, March 16, 2018 (UTC)
 * Well so far i stayed out of your private fanfic. Personally I feel that either the first Age or the second Age should provide opportunities for wandering mannish groups to cross over to the New Lands/Lands of the sun... but I doubt they become little more than scattered tribes or develope any greater settlements or more advanced civilization by the third Age.The Isles northeast of Womawas Drus could have once provided a land bridge, or there may have been something like the iceclaw/bering street, migration via small boats past the islands of the inner seas also could be apossibility. apart from that everything is worldbuilding and fanfic.--Haerangil (talk) 13:58, March 16, 2018 (UTC)

--Haerangil (talk) 13:58, March 16, 2018 (UTC)

Well I totally understand that Haerangil and I'll add that part in, but if going by the canon of middle earth--Numenor and Spirits of Arda would have to be there as well. I think First Age of people wandering would be better so I'll add that in as well. Thank you for the help. Like I said, if you have anything you wish me to add, let me know. Personally though, I don't understand why you just didn't add all the Loremaster stuff to those areas. Moran half valar (talk) 19:44, March 16, 2018 (UTC)


 * Loremaster is odd because two worlds now share some of the same scenarios, and I cannot just make Kulthea be a part of Ambar.About Emer and Vog Mur, i think i pretty much DID already work that in for Southernesse. Easternesse I don´t know... I think there should be peoples distantly akin to the Avaradan/Womaw in the North, the Shay and Vulmaw in the central and maybe the Old Ones and Druedain in the South. I also could imagine some exiled Nelyarin Avar Tribes, but Elves and Orcs should be the absolute exception. I´m not sure about Orcs and Trolls... if there are any, they did not come by Land but intruded from the Underdeeps beneath the Sea... Giants I could imagine too... Ents I do not know. Maybe the Entwives went there? I think the Lands should really be scarcely settled and thinly populated and be far off from the more advanced societies in Middle-Earth. There could be ruins of post-Numenorean Pyramids in some rainforest areas ;-) --Haerangil (talk) 03:10, March 18, 2018 (UTC)

Well I appreciate your discussion. I am willing to let you add whatever you wish. Do you want me then to delete the Loremaster parts added to the Lands of the Sun? I can do that and would be willing--if it saves you a headache for later. I think I'll just plan on adding spirits of arda, the man tribes as you have suggested, maybe some nameless, and Numenorian ruins. But I do have to say that Amandil and his three servants had to end up there based on the canon of the story. There is no way they made it before Ar-Pharazon cause it disrupts the whole "Man setting foot on Valinor premise." Moran half valar (talk) 17:35, March 24, 2018 (UTC)


 * Well as far as i can see the four Loremaster Books at first were semi-official parts of the wild Lands of southern and eastern Middle-Earth. The Rolemaster World came later...

so keep them in!--Haerangil (talk) 17:39, March 24, 2018 (UTC)

Alright, I'll keep everything as is, but do you want me to lessen the Numenorian presence? I can rewrite that part, though I do feel, Amandil and his servants would have landed there. Whether they survived or not is another issue entirely. Moran half valar (talk) 00:38, March 26, 2018 (UTC)

Also, I want to stress that there are two categories for War and Wars. I think they should be consolidated. I noticed that we are trying to make the merp world more like our own, so if that's the case, then I should try to reduce the amount of Numenor influence in the New Lands. Perhaps a lot of the sacrificial traditions come from the King's Men and were left to the people of the South in the New Lands. Moran half valar (talk) 03:21, March 26, 2018 (UTC)

Undead/skeletons fanon
Hey Haerangil, I just quickly want to say that when we were talking about vaious undead and such before, I rememberd about something I did a while back on the LOTR Fanon WIki. I made a fanon page of my own creation about the undead and also one about skeletons. The one about skeletons is extremely detailed by the way of the different variants.

Undead page: [//lotrfanon.wikia.com/wiki/Undead http://lotrfanon.wikia.com/wiki/Undead]

Skeletons page: [//lotrfanon.wikia.com/wiki/Skeleton http://lotrfanon.wikia.com/wiki/Skeleton]

(sorry about posting on your talk page so much)


 * MERP and Even the Fanmodules suffered from unrealistic fantasy elements suxh as the "eternal realms" phenomenon..

Other Minds Magazine has some intereting articles about the issue: http://www2.omzine.org/downloads/om-english/om-012-other-minds-eng-20110722.pdf

I think if a 2ndary source has issues with realism, language or other topics we should try to correct them. So no big numenorean colonization on other continents, at least none that is even slightly similar to that in Gondor or Harad, where the major colonization centres were. Fanmodules messed that up with BN Colonies like Anarîke... --Haerangil (talk) 10:24, March 26, 2018 (UTC)

Okay I'll change that when I get the chance Haerangil. Thank you for the clarification. Moran half valar (talk) 16:27, March 26, 2018 (UTC)

Also, would you like me to place Fankil in the New Lands or Dark Lands? He wouldn't have stayed behind while Sauron's nazgul came to power. Moran half valar (talk) 20:40, March 27, 2018 (UTC)


 * I see the danger of making Fankil a petty sauron imitate...

If we can avoid this, then I don´t care what you do with him.It´s fanfic after all...--Haerangil (talk) 12:26, April 9, 2018 (UTC)

So you don't mind where I put him. Okay. Also, by YOUR timeline of the Fifth Age, I cannot put humans in Land of the Sun or the Dark Lands as there is no bearing strait until the Fifth Age--meaning no human tribes walked to these areas. In which case the only things that would have hypothetically been at these areas are some kinds of faerie animals and spirits of arda. Moran half valar (talk) 12:56, April 9, 2018 (UTC) Or some type of alien group Moran half valar (talk) 13:25, April 9, 2018 (UTC)


 * I don´t know what you mean. If you´re talking about the Bering Strait, then I cannot see why there could not have been such a way in the first or second Age. Ad even if there´s not, there still would be the possibility of a Coastal migration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_of_the_Americas --Haerangil (talk) 13:40, April 9, 2018 (UTC)

The Bering Strait comes about in YOUR TIMELINE AT THE FIFTH AGE. The continents of Arda break in the Elder Days so they are separate. So people couldn't just travel the great sea in little canoes and rowboats. There wasn't any people in the Land of the Sun or Dark Lands--only Spirits of Arda, Nameless, and possibly something else. What you propose doesn't take place until the 5th Age per your own timeline. Moran half valar (talk) 16:45, April 9, 2018 (UTC)


 * I don´t know what you ´re talking about. There is zero mention of a bering strait in any articles on this Wiki. Bering Strait ceased 10.000 years ago, which would be equivalent to late second - early third Age (as mentioned in the 5th Age article, which you probably misinterpreted). The Americas are believed to have been settled between 1.-20.000 years ago, so either Bering strait existed way back a long time or via continental drift or coastal migrations men from east Asia got there. Anyway, in JRRTs Ambar Men only exist since no much more than 12.000 years, at least in the variant of the timeline which is accepted by me for this Wiki.-Haerangil (talk) 21:09, April 11, 2018 (UTC)

I don't know what else to say. Here is the link that you have on your wiki that separates Elder Days, First Age, Second Age, Third Age, etc. [//merp.wikia.com/wiki/Fifth_Age http://merp.wikia.com/wiki/Fifth_Age]        Moran half valar (talk) 21:20, April 11, 2018 (UTC)


 * Yes I know that article. What you claim i wrote is not what is actually written there. read carefully.--Haerangil (talk) 15:19, April 12, 2018 (UTC)

Haerangil, it is. It says late second age to early third age. The part I corrected already and what I was discussing with you was what took place and what was there in the FIRST AGE. So in the FIRST AGE there wouldn't be any humans there, and that is what I was saying. There only could be Althans, Faerie Animals, and Spirits of Arda. No humans. Moran half valar (talk) 00:06, April 13, 2018 (UTC)

Getting in contact
Hey Haerangil

I would like to get in contact with you on Steam or Discord and talk about the more unknown locations of Arda, especially the Far East, Chyan Lands/ Bay of Ormal and Central Arda. We might have material to exchange too.

I am currently working on a LOTR mod for Europa Universalis IV and it covers pretty much all of Arda (Not The Utter South and the dark lands to the south and east).

Current province map of Arda:



Feel free to add me

Steam: Nicrlaitheking

Discord: NicTheKing #9934

Kind Regards

Nicrlaitheking (talk) 06:56, March 30, 2018 (UTC)


 * Sorry i don´t use either of these programs.--Haerangil (talk) 12:26, April 9, 2018 (UTC)

Yo! I've have a look around this wiki and I think it's really cool but it looks a bit bland. I wouls recommend that you use the Theme Designer to put some background art and colour in this wikia. Also I noticed that this wiki doesn't have forums *cough-cough* Roleplay Forum *cough-cough*. Mugicman66 (talk) 06:09, July 27, 2018 (UTC)

Goblins, Orcs, and Uruk Hai, are they immortal because they are twisted elves and the Great Goblin from the Hobbit seems to know that Orcrist was from Gondolin. He also knew Glamdring. Now he either had some awesome Goblin Scribes give this info, or he was there... Moran half valar (talk) 19:30, November 15, 2018 (UTC)
 * No, Tolkien never made a definite decision about this issue, instead he discussed several ideas in peoples of Middle-Earth and for tbis Wiki i chose that eventually all of them may have some truth in it, some orcs are embodied maiar, other are sentinent beasts, others are soulless constructs and so e may have the blood of elves or men, but i left it open as JRRT did, though i chise to interpret the great Goblin to be at last a lesser descendant of the Boldog-Orcs, and maybe Azog and Bolg too, but nit the common Goblins or lesser Orcs and also not the Uruk-Hai who almost certainly are of mannish or half-orcish descend. I chose that most orcs are shortlived, as the Druedain and only a few families or bloodlines are longlived, I know this is an unsatisfying solution and only a compromise, but it is the best way i could think of to let all of JRRTs conflicting ideas have their right.--Haerangil (talk) 22:48, November 15, 2018 (UTC)

Rhûn and Númenor Maps
Hey Haerangil,

Do you have a complete version of these two maps from Thomas Morwinsky?

and

I haven't had much luck looking elsewhere and have not had much success trying to contact Morwinsky himself either.

Klime65536 (talk) 00:07, November 21, 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi there! Yes i have, but unfortunately they are really extremely big files and i could only upload them in cut and very turned down versions, they are extremely detailed and look weird as one file . I think they were released with the inland sea fan-module anf the other minds magazine, though 7 do not remember which issue, but i am sure you could find them or thomas morwinskys contact adress at the homepage of other minds magazine.--Haerangil (talk) 02:44, November 21, 2018 (UTC)

I sent him a message yesterday (I also sent him one a few months ago and recieved no response), no response yet either. How big are the images exactly(in terms of file size)?

Klime65536 (talk) 05:03, November 22, 2018 (UTC)

No response from Morwinsky, there's a good chance that he doesn't have the files anymore at this point anyway considering that they are 19 years old. In that case, could you upload the section of the map showing the northern edge of Mordor and Khand, and also tell me the name of the road WSW of the word Logathavuld? Also, if you want to upload the full maps you may be able to do so by converting them into PDF files (as long as they are <10MB), maps that large tend to work better as PDFs too.

Klime65536 (talk) 18:38, December 3, 2018 (UTC)


 * I'll look it up if i find the time for it, the uploads on wikia are not suited for too big files and all types of file formats.--Haerangil (talk) 13:36, December 5, 2018 (UTC)

Is it southern Mirkwood that shows Thorin Stonehelm with Orcrist? Should we add that to his item page? Because I remember one of the modules shows him with it. Also, I doubt the Dwarfs just left one of the best swords on Thorin II grave at the Battle of Dale. Moran half valar (talk) 16:12, November 22, 2018 (UTC)

Dwarf Leaders Duing Second Age 3429 & Third Age 2793-2799
Hey Haerangil, I need help with the timeline of some of the Dwarfs. Since some of the founding fathers have their storylines mixed, I find it hard to follow the lineage correctly.

So if you could help me know what Dwarf Kings ruled during S.A. 3429, and who the leaders were that helped Thrain II fight against the Orcs of the Misty Mountains in T.A. 2793-2799, I would much appreciate it! Moran half valar (talk) 20:59, November 22, 2018 (UTC)
 * no, orcrist was placed on thorins tomb and there it remained. As forvthe dwarves, yes it it hard work trying to adjust the merp version and the lotrrpg version with the canon, i am myself often getting confused and LOTRO has started to dig 7nto lore too, though they do a pretty good job so far as as i can say.I will try to look up which dwarf lords could be used for TA 279X and SA 3429x--Haerangil (talk) 03:28, November 23, 2018 (UTC)
 * the dwarven history really is a mess! Most of it comes from ICE though, the author of Lords of ME III left a terribly confused Storyline for the Dwarves. About SA 3429 Fulla XIII, Fulla XIV, Bali the Unfortunate, Bhrali, Ghal Druinakh, Barov, Bhrali, Buldin and Orn all lived, they could well have played part in the last Alliance ,there is little about the Stiffbeards.About 2700 there is little from MERP, I found the names Kelor and Gildra in fanfic and suppose they led the Ironfists and Stiffbeards...i suppose one of the Uris led the Firebeards.--Haerangil (talk) 07:51, November 23, 2018 (UTC)
 * I overlooked Fulla of Barak-shathur!--Haerangil (talk) 08:39, November 23, 2018 (UTC)

Okay, thank you so much for the help! It really means a lot! Fulla of Barak-shathur? Was he in the Second or Third Age? I am guessing Third? Moran half valar (talk) 21:06, November 23, 2018 (UTC)

Well why don't we just use the Seven Father's reincarnated as those that were living during SA 3429? I guess that would contradict the MERP canon, but there are no stats on Orn the ugly, Bali the Unfortunate, or Ghal Druinakh. I am just wanting the heirs of the Seven Fathers that were around in SA 3429 and TA 2793-99. Moran half valar (talk) 22:05, November 23, 2018 (UTC)
 * all of them? No way! Stats are your problem, seriously? No, i have set up a canon hierarchy for the wiki and i'll stick to it, tjis is no headcanon wiki.--Haerangil (talk) 10:06, November 24, 2018 (UTC)

Okay I don't think you understand, I would like the stats but don't need them. I just want to know of the Seven Kings in SA 3429 who were they? I know Durin V, Ghal Druinakh, Orn the ugly, and Rulin (father of Ralin) were all kings at this time--whether they bore the same items as the initial seven (Durin excluded) is up for debate.

THAT IS ALL THAT I WANT TO KNOW. WHO THE SEVEN KINGS WERE AT SA 3429. That's it. Moran half valar (talk) 22:11, November 24, 2018 (UTC)

Haerangil, how am I suppose to finish the battles towards your "Canon Hiearchy" if I don't know who the seven Dwarf lords were in SA 3429? I am using, based on what you gave me and the LOTR 3 Module: Orn (Thelor's tribe), Rulin (Belegost Tribe), Ghal Druinakh (Malln's Tribe), Durin V (Durin's Tribe), Bali the Unfortunate (Druin's Tribe), but I still need Uri's tribe & Thulin's tribe. If you could tell me the canon rulers according to MERPs I would appreciate it, and I would stop bugging you about it. If I have to make them up i will. Moran half valar (talk) 16:15, November 25, 2018 (UTC)
 * As I said, MERP and lotrrpg seem to be silent on the issue.Though i imagine that LOTRO might come up with something in near future... they're really into subcreation now!--Haerangil (talk) 16:28, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

What can I do to help?
Haerangil, am I helping this wiki out? I mean, I try to do things as canonical to the wiki and Tolkien's canon as possible. But am I in the way here? I have been trying to finish the wars/battles, but I don't have all the merp info like you do. I remember us talking about senor morgoth and the pages he butchered--and I have come to wonder, do you feel I am doing the same? Let me know how I am doing and if I am really helping. Moran half valar (talk) 20:47, November 26, 2018 (UTC)
 * well, ICE and a lot of other 2ndary works are often a mess or directly contradict the canon, so it's allright to set things straight and change or correct ICE and other sources where they are flawed, another thing is that even the 2ndary sozrces are sometimes highly contradicting, often one has to choose between differing versions if one wants to create a coherent account, and that is one of the goals of this wiki, to make 2ndary work fit in with the canon and make it coheseve with other 2ndary work.That cannot he done without doing corrections and a good amount of own imagination and inventive work by oneself, so I encourage the incorporation of fanfic and own inventions for the sake of the greater picture.--Haerangil (talk) 02:18, November 27, 2018 (UTC)

Dorwinion timeline Errors
Well I have corrected the timeline errors done by MERPS, I feel it is more canonical now based on the published text that we have. I don't mind humans being with Dorwinion, but do you think that the elves who initially ruled would really give middle men and low men the secrets of their wine? That is poor business to say the least. Therefore, there still had to be  a ruling sect of elves that managed Dorwinion totally and kept the secrets of their living hood safe.

So I say we place an elf as leader of Dorwinion after Bladorthin Koldana. I propose Narthseg, Lenwe, or some made up half-human half-elf (maybe a son of Gilmith) or some type of other elf to fill this role as I feel it is necessary towards the canon of the published novels. Moran half valar (talk) 18:49, December 18, 2018 (UTC)
 * to be honest i am not quite happy with that version of Dorwinion at the moment. I have read the articles you posted about Bladorthin and Dorwinion and i am not convinced at all. I feel that the conclusion that Bladorthin must have been an elf and King of Dorwinion and Dorwinion an elven realm solely on the base that a silvan elf got terribly drunk on one of their wines stands on very thin ground. According to peoples of Middle-earth the shores of the inland sea were settled by men, akin to the houses Beor and Hador and that includes the land called Dorwinion.Elves or Dwarves are never mentioned, thogh that does not rule out some elves in the eastern wood or dwarves in the eastern hills..

Besides the Nandor and even Sindar are never credited with being great farmers or planters, quite the opposite.It is the High-elves who are credited with more organised forms of agriculture and wines especially.--Haerangil (talk) 18:57, December 18, 2018 (UTC)

Then how do you propose that the wines could affect elves? Elves are immune to poison and only they would know how to make wines. The article I wrote on Bladorthin, represents him establishing Dorwinion, if you read carefully, I talk about the "men" of the surrounding areas and how Bladorthin incorporated them.

Nandor were considered great with plants, http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Nandor,  the Telerin and Sinda are of the same line of people as them, and Dorwinion was initially on Tol Eressa and in Beleriand. Both areas controlled by these lines. This negates my initial question however, but as it stands, who would be the leader of the Free People's Dorwinion?

Also, it talks in the Hobbit about Mirkwoods kin to the "South"  possible reference to Dorwinion or Lothlorien, but from where Thranduil's kingdom is on the far eastern part of Greenwood, that would make Dorwinion more south as Lothlorien would be south west. Moran half valar (talk) 19:38, December 18, 2018 (UTC)
 * No.The Green elves for example even rejected to chop wood!Now one may considere the Laiquendi Fundamentalists and obviously not all Nandor were that fanatical, Yes, the Nandor were "Great with Plants" but that does in no way make them farmers, quite the opposite, they were woodland-folk, and that does not fit in any way with a Vinyard-culture.The Dorwinions in Tol Eressea and southern Beleriand also don't speak for Nandor.The eressean Dorwinion was, as most of the island, probably settled by Noldor, about the beleriandic Dor-Winion we know even less, it may have been an early Entwife-playground for example, though i doubt that as vinyard culture affords a great amount of manipulation of Plants, and especually heavy wines are unlikely for wild wine.Those are wines with a high amount of sugar and alcohol as is implied with the dorwinic Wine galdor nicked from his king.The closest real-world equivalent of such a wine would be sherry or maybe port, at last fortified wine which can have more than 20% alcohol, and such wine culture started with the romans in the real world (The closes Equivalent to the Romans in ME probably would be the Numenoreans, which is why I prefer to see Dorwiniosn as a former gondorian Province).

But to answer you Question:I haven't come to working through the Inland sea-module as i am still stuck with Gondor, however i am planning to do so after i am finished with Gondor, Forochel and Harad, and I think i would so far prefer to follow the MERP Canon with dorwinion, and the Inland sea module is the best and most detailed continuation of MERP considering Rhun as far as i know. --Haerangil (talk) 22:51, December 18, 2018 (UTC)

Well if we go by the exact timeline--it says here that the elves (Avari) taught the men that moved west many customs of civilization http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Avari  paragraph 5 also see Languages section. But again, I don't mind Middle Men taking over in the Third Age, I do feel Bladorthin needs to remain ruler of Dorwinion however not only because of all the speculations of Tolkienists, but because the Princes of Dol Amroth are listed from T.A. 2004 to 4.A. 95 http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Princes_of_Dol_Amroth

But if we want to say Bladorthin ruled up until that point, but then he would have had to relienquish his power in S.A. 1702 because Celeborn and Galadriel went there. So to avoid all that convoluted and uncanonical mess, I proposed him ruling until S.A. 1702, then he takes his loyal followers, establishes Dorwinion, and rules until his assassination in somewhere between T.A. 1999 to T.A. 2770. If you want, I can go back and make it where the Middle Men are the ones that showed the Silvan how to farm and do agriculture, but that is just arguing over semantics. In other words, who cares who established the farming? They both obviously had to work together and that is what I showed while Bladorthin is king. If we want a human king by T.A. 3018-3019 I am okay with that. But as far as saying "he farmed this and they farmed that," it is really counter productive. Moran half valar (talk) 16:18, December 19, 2018 (UTC)


 * Well canonically the elves taught the men in the first age, but ents taught them agriculture in the second age, from which i conclude that (in that part of the world) elves had little agricultural knowledge to teach men, which fits to everything we know about the Nandor at the time.And i am not happy with it being the other way around and elves learning vinyard culture from men. The entire dorwinion-Bladorthin connection feels too constructed in my opinion.I think it would be difficult enough to bring the many versions of bladorthin into a believable concordance even without constructing a relation to Dorwinion.--Haerangil (talk) 18:16, December 20, 2018 (UTC)

Final Word on Dorwinion
I am willing to make it an all man kingdom by the Third Age, if that is your aim, but concerning all the speculation and secondary works, I feel I created an article that does everything your mission statement says while adhering to the canon. Bladorthin the Sinda could have fallen in the Third Age and the kingdom become more mannish. I am totally cool with this, but initially speaking, with the secondary works that we have (People's of Middle Earth is one of these and is less on the canon ladder than Tolkien's own notes--Published text > Notes > Than other post humorous publications > Fanon). I did exactly as asked and have offered good reason to the character and area.

So as discussed I would still like to establish the main leader of the Free Peoples portion of Dorwinion by the Third Age after Bladorthin's death. Moran half valar (talk) 20:07, December 18, 2018 (UTC)

If still sour, what would you want me to do differently than what you initially proposed on your mission statement page? Moran half valar (talk) 20:52, December 18, 2018 (UTC)
 * I so far have not imposed anything on you or any other contributors, but I am discussing contents with which I am not happy.So far i have only told you my personal opinion, and I made my points how i came to it.I still wish to have Bladorthin as an elven King, and I still wish to keep the eryn rhun as a silvan-realm.On Dorwinion I told you why i have my doubts and why i would refrain from considering anything in regards to it "canonical".I prefer "plausible" on issues on which we do not have any or only little canonical information.--Haerangil (talk) 23:03, December 18, 2018 (UTC)

You are right in the regard that we have very limited canon on the matter. Really we have the published texts from the Hobbit (which doesn't say much) and that is it. Next we have Tolkien's notes which serve as a good justification to elaborate on the following published text, followed by post humorous publications (People's of Middle Earth) and then we have speculations and least of all fanfic.

Unless you tell me outright what makes you happy, I am not a mind reader. So as far as I know, you are unhappy with Dorwinion being an elf kingdom, is that it? I am suggesting it was more like Korande in the Utter South (Human and Silvan Elf interactions). If wanting to seclude the Silvan elves to purely the Rhun Forest, then okay, but as a former tactician, leaving an enemy that spews disease from an evil fortress Island--seems pretty incompetent. Especially when the diseases wipe out a good chunk of the population of Rhovania. I am of course referring to Tol Sûlereb. Why would the elves and Dorwinrim then leave that place unchecked? They clearly, per your MERP wiki have access to boats and ships.

So I don't know. I basically took everything listed above and combined it into a cohesive article that has much better flow-ability. I can go back and make it where Bladorthin ruled and place his elves in the Rhun Forest--and that the men taught them agriculture (though this is inferred otherwise in the link about the Avari) but again, we're changing something (a minute detail) that I find hardly anyone would really care about. Moran half valar (talk) 16:30, December 19, 2018 (UTC)
 * i share your concerns on To sulereb, (and Minas falath is also an issue), and I agree that what we get from the perils on the sea of rhun, hands of the healer and river running MERP modules seems contradictive and little balanced.--Haerangil (talk) 14:16, December 20, 2018 (UTC)

Realms of Arda
Hello Haerangil! Just wanted to drop by and send my encouragement and to share how impressed I am that you have been able to keep this wiki going all these years. I created the Realms of Arda many years ago, and I'm happy to see that parts of that effort still live on today (and I see that you still keep references to my old defunct website). In this period of my life I don't have much time to devote to the Tolkien/Middle-earth hobby, unfortunately, but surely I'll return in the future. (BTW, I'm still occasionally active as admin over at Tolkien Gateway as User:Morgan) --RealmsOfArda (talk) 20:17, February 28, 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot!--Haerangil (talk) 23:33, February 28, 2019 (UTC)

Deepest Apology Letter

 * Hi Haerangil, I just want to express my deepest apologies for inserting nonsense/gibberish and messing up articles. For that, I'm really sorry, but you know what, I should've left you a message in requesting you to check what I did wrong.
 * I recently uploaded new photos, added a few inboxes on a few pages, and categories, but I was hoping by any chance if you check if I didn't mess any of the articles up, because I want to be really careful on what I upload to this wikia site. Please understand that I really, really want to be careful. Let me know if there are any errors.--Spenpiano (talk) 22:27, March 4, 2019 (UTC)
 * You caused me a lot of uneccessary work and waste of time i'd liked to have invested in other ways.Everybody gets a second chance and eveeybody gets a third chance.So this time is the last time buddy 😉--Haerangil (talk) 16:39, March 5, 2019 (UTC)
 * Understood😉--Spenpiano (talk) 17:58, March 5, 2019 (UTC)

Image Upload
Hi, just wanted to get back with you. I uploaded a few images and added them to pages only. Also, I might have a couple of good photos that could be useful for Galador of Dol Amroth. Let me know what you say.--Spenpiano (talk) 18:23, March 5, 2019 (UTC)

Warcraft Roleplaying Shadows & Light
Hey Haerangil, I was wondering, I got these old books on warcraft roleplaying, and I was wondering if you know how to convert characters to ICE/MERP, if not that is okay. I was just curious if you knew how. Moran half valar (talk) 05:40, March 6, 2019 (UTC)
 * what do you wanna do? I mean i am not at all about converting stats you know...

everything else, i would interpret Wow orcs as Uruk-hai, goblins and Trolls as lesser orcs, Ogres as Trolls... and so on--Haerangil (talk) 17:15, March 19, 2019 (UTC).

Bashk-Uga
Hi Haerangil, just wanted to let you know that the pic for Bashk-Uga is located in the reference of the site. Let me leave it for you incase if you want to see the site just incase: http://www.thelandofshadow.com/mordor-march-madness-orc-wars-2016-mordor-round-two/. If you have any questions or suggestions, let me know.--Spenpiano (talk) 11:46, March 9, 2019 (UTC)
 * just tbink of the interwikis and references and categories for pics... --Haerangil (talk) 17:16, March 19, 2019 (UTC)

Message Response
Yeah, I read the message about the categories and invented characters. I've been waiting a while to get a response back from you. Sorry about replacing certain images, its just I thought it was alright to do so. Please give me the time return the old images you made and maybe I can put the new ones in an infobox instead. I have a lot of things to talk about. There are also some pics that are on the wrong pages and I found the exact sources and references. By your permission, I want to give a list of the characters before changing them.--Spenpiano (talk) 12:16, March 21, 2019 (UTC)
 * Also, I want you to have a look at my profile. Can you go over the list of characters and see which ones that need correcting and are ready to be added. I'm not ready to add them at all.--Spenpiano (talk) 12:16, March 21, 2019 (UTC)
 * I managed to fix the Rothinel page when you mentioned her to me.--Spenpiano (talk) 12:24, March 21, 2019 (UTC)
 * On the Arafain of Lórien page, did I manage to do everything that you wanted me to do? Please check, I need to be 100% sure.--Spenpiano (talk) 19:30, March 21, 2019 (UTC)
 * looks ok, but check grammar please!--Haerangil (talk) 20:29, March 21, 2019 (UTC)
 * Okay, and were you able to look at my profile?--Spenpiano (talk) 02:05, March 22, 2019 (UTC)
 * I was checking the interwikis, references or categories for pics. I know that the picture for the page Barash of Dol Guldur is 100% the right one. I looked for the source and saw it in a site called Mordor March Madness Orc Wars. However, there seems to be a problem with that site. I don't know what it is, but it seems that this site has new ads that have been added. Let me know if you have any questions or suggestions.--Spenpiano (talk) 17:03, March 23, 2019 (UTC)


 * I ask you to better research the articles your posting, check what names you use, for example sometimes you chose names of the wrong gender, or invent an older sibling, which makes the canonical line of sucession obsolete or you use an unfitting title of you reuse discarded spellings (spellings which were abandoned for good reason).Then again i ask you not to replace good and fitting illustrations i have chosen with random movie stills..--Haerangil (talk) 07:14, March 26, 2019 (UTC)

GrammarFix
Hi Haerangil, I went to this site called GrammarFix, and I used it to check the grammar for Arafain of Lórien and Amaldor of Beleriand. Let me know if the grammar on those pages are correct.--Spenpiano (talk) 02:35, March 22, 2019 (UTC)
 * looks good!--Haerangil (talk) 07:17, March 22, 2019 (UTC)
 * For the Elfwyn wife of Herefara, the grammarly found no errors in the text.--Spenpiano (talk) 15:19, March 22, 2019 (UTC)

Shag-Rûrz
Hi, I am positive that the image for the Shag-Rûrz pic is right. I have found the source and references to it. By your permission, can I post it back?--Spenpiano (talk) 13:14, March 22, 2019 (UTC)

Grammar and Reference
Hi Haerangil, I've been waiting for a couple of responses from you. I've been editing, adding new pages and photos, and I've also made sure that the grammar is perfect. Let me know if you any questions.--Spenpiano (talk) 14:28, March 25, 2019 (UTC)

Fix Up
Hi Haerangil, thanks for responding back, I know I've been waiting to receive a reply from you, so I read everything that you put on Rothinel, Araneth of Arthedain, Dirhoel, Arandost, and Arasuil. I will go through the pages and fix them. Fortunately, I managed to fix Rothinel and Araneth. Point is, I didn't realize that Araneth was a girl's name. Sometimes, I get confused between girl and boy names, and its hard to tell. But since you were an expert, I should've asked you first before I added it, and for that, I'm sorry.--Spenpiano (talk) 13:46, March 26, 2019 (UTC)
 * Also, is it alright, if you can put the pic for the Gilmith of Dol Amroth. That pic shares a resemblance to the pic on the Tolkien Gateway.--Spenpiano (talk) 13:46, March 26, 2019 (UTC)
 * Oh, and please check if the Arasuil and Arandost needs any rewrites.--Spenpiano (talk) 14:08, March 26, 2019 (UTC)
 * I am okay with Arandost, Arasuil i feel his story needs to be explained better.The Rothinel p7cture i will not change again.I think the illzstration of a couple on a tower overlooking Dol Amroth suits the article better than another still of DaenaerysvTargaryen.--Haerangil (talk) 15:49, March 26, 2019 (UTC)
 * Well in that case i might have an idea for the Gilmith page.--Spenpiano (talk) 16:08, March 26, 2019 (UTC)
 * Tell me, the couple in the pic, is it Gilmith's husband or her brother?--Spenpiano (talk) 17:54, March 26, 2019 (UTC)
 * I just created a gallery in Gilmith of Dol Amroth page. Incase if other users plan to add other pic to that page, it would make sense to put them in a gallery like other wikia sites, however, since this your wikia and if you don't apprenciate the idea, then its fine. Let me know what you say.--Spenpiano (talk) 23:44, March 26, 2019 (UTC)


 * No! Absolutely no! I am using my admin rights to veto this! I am strictly against using meaningless moviestills if there are better Tolkien-themed illustrations available!--Haerangil (talk) 03:22, March 27, 2019 (UTC)
 * Okay. I just removed them.--Spenpiano (talk) 20:13, March 27, 2019 (UTC)

Talk Pages
Hi, did you read any of the talk pages by any chance?--Spenpiano (talk) 15:44, March 26, 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes.--Haerangil (talk) 15:49, March 26, 2019 (UTC)
 * Do you want me to rewrite on pages, such as Arasuil and Arandost?--Spenpiano (talk) 15:52, March 26, 2019 (UTC)

Question
Hi, can you tell me first about the fan characters? Which one of them is male or female? Gilion, Tinwen, and Silorel?--Spenpiano (talk) 20:15, March 27, 2019 (UTC)
 * -wen and -rel are common female endings, -on is a male-only ending.check out: elfdict.com

--Haerangil (talk) 20:45, March 28, 2019 (UTC)

Picture Swap
Oh and another thing I almost forgot, the image: Lady_Elleth_-_The_Far_Distant_Shore.png This is the one that should belong to Gilmith of Dol Amroth. Reason is, it belongs to the Gilmith page in the Tolkien Gateway. And I'm thinking that the image: TheSunUnveiled.jpg. This one should belong to Aerien, cause I'm thinking that the pic shows Galador and his wife. However, I might be mistaken, if it is Gilmith, I will not move the image until I receive a response from you. Let me know if you have any questions or suggestions?--Spenpiano (talk) 20:33, March 27, 2019 (UTC)

Unnamed Characters
Hey Haerangil, if you could assign the champions/rulers of the Easterlings, Harad, Men of the White Mountains, and Khand for SA 1697-1701, please let me know and I will add them to the War/Battles pages. Moran half valar (talk) 20:40, March 28, 2019 (UTC)
 * sorry too busy at the moment.But TA 1640 is the standard MERP setting, depending on how old they are in MERP and how old humans get some of them could still be in power several decades later, or the titles have passed ono their sons.--Haerangil (talk) 20:47, March 28, 2019 (UTC)

Shadow of War Easterlings
What was the faction of Easterlings that lived in the Region or Kingdom of Shên (Realm)?--Spenpiano (talk) 21:36, March 28, 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't know.Shen appears in shadow of war... MERP has a people called Arklu-shen, so I found it logical to connect both.I suppose theire descendants of the Linerim.--Haerangil (talk) 12:12, April 2, 2019 (UTC)

Lineage of Dol Amroth
Hi, I found a site which listed all the name of Princes that ruled Dol Amroth: http://www.theonering.com/reading-room/stories/the-lineage-of-amroth-appendix-b-genealogy-of-the-princes Let me know what you think of it.--Spenpiano (talk) 13:59, March 30, 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, one half of the names of the princes listed in Unnamed Characters i took from that page.--Haerangil (talk) 12:15, April 2, 2019 (UTC)

New pics
Hi Haerangil, here's four pics that I got from the Land of Shadow.com.--Spenpiano (talk) 00:18, April 3, 2019 (UTC)


 * Man, i wish those people would invest some more time in their orcish/black speech really!--Haerangil (talk) 00:24, April 3, 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you and me both, so by your permission, shall I add these pics to the pages if they belong to the site?--Spenpiano (talk) 00:33, April 3, 2019 (UTC)

Men of the White Mountains
I just got done reading in the Southern People (Gondor) module, and I read up on Merro Glastanan, apparently Sauron hadn't appeared to the Men of the White Mountains until SA 3253, which means, that they probably didn't fight in the War of the Elves and Sauron. Even the term Morachd doesn't appear until this time.

So with that said, I guess we could still include the men of the White Mountains, but they would HAVE to be more tribal, and the fact that Sauron didn't appear to them til 3253 begs the question if they would have fought for him anyways.

Canon wise, we don't actually know when the Daen established their kingdom in the mountains. Tolkien never states this, but I know MERPS tried to solve the issue with this timeline. What do you propose we do Haerangil? Should they still participate? I think yes, but I still need more characters which I need your help with. Moran half valar (talk) 21:50, April 16, 2019 (UTC)
 * the story of tal-elmar takes place likely in gondor in the second age, most likely in the years between sa 1200 and sa 1900 (my guess).According to that story the mountain and coastal men already had served the evil king (Sauron?) In several wars so i guess you can use them at this point.--Haerangil (talk) 07:16, April 17, 2019 (UTC)

Okay, I guess I will, but Tal-Elmar based on what we have for MERP canon--he is considered a hero, thus I don't know if he would be a candidate for the Dark Lord. Nay, he would actually be on Agaldor's side. However, I suppose I could use Mogru as a villain for the Men of the White Mountains...not sure though, I guess this is our only option unless we have some of Tal-Elmar's siblings fight on Sauron's side--but after reading the character bios on Tolkien Gateway, the army of the "North King?" Who is the North King according to MERPS? Did Buldar the grandfather of  Perhaps you are right and I should use these characters. Tolkien Gateway states that these characters would be more likely around SA 1800. http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Hazad_Longbeard See notes. So I don't know if they would be canonically acceptable during this time period. I guess I need to just make them up since MERPS and you don't seem to have any answers.

I'll leave with one more question, can i use Ôervîk-Drâl as a character for Evil in the War of the Last Alliance? I mean, his loss could have been the result of his exile and death. Moran half valar (talk) 16:15, April 17, 2019 (UTC)
 * Tal-Elmar should be on the good side, though i don't know about his grandfather! Yet tal-elmars home and Agaldors home are quite far away, so i doubt they even knew each other. On oervik dral... i am generally very careful with using characters from faraway parts of the continent in the Westlands... take the into mind that this Wiki is working with the impression that Middle-earth is a far bigger continent than Pete Fenlons or Karen wynn fonstadts maps suggest! I honestly doubt that it is very likely that a character from, lets say Thailand or Cambodia fights in a war in early medieval or late antique europe...--Haerangil (talk) 17:45, April 17, 2019 (UTC)

Okay, I'll take Overik-Dral out, and I guess what you are telling me is that I have to just make up the characters of the White Mountains. MERP didn't give anything for this time period SA 1690-1700? In any case, is there a good Daen Naming list that I can use to make up the characters. Seems the most logical at this point. Moran half valar (talk) 01:38, April 18, 2019 (UTC)

You know, I got to thinking Haerangil, and based on the MERP canon and JRRT's Canon, I think we are safe to leave the Men of the White Mountains completely out. Let us examine what we know:

Agaldor and the men of enedwaith were initially allied to elves, numenor, and dwarfs but fell away AFTER Numenor started butchering their forests--this is canonical. We know in MERPs canon that the White Mountain people did not accept Sauron as the Dark Lord until S.A. 3253, and we know the Torbet Priests were still devoted to the Valar per the quote in the Paths of the Dead module (Grannen Torbet the High Priestess still worshipped Valar by S.A. 2850).

So in order to keep with the canon of MERPS AND the canon of JRRT, I suggest that we remove the Men of the White Mountains TOTALLY and replace them with the Orcs of Forodwaith/Misty Mountains for the following reasons:

1. MERPS acknowledges that Sauron left Orcish priests to corrupt the orcs in that region.

2. We KNOW that the orcs attacked Gundabad and drove the Dwarfs out at this time. So what did they do besides then? It is plausible that they came down the mountain and attacked Imladris and helped Sauron.

3. This ties in with all the MERP and JRRT canon. So I think I will change this if you are okay with this. Moran half valar (talk) 05:02, April 18, 2019 (UTC)
 * Then there is still the possibility that the proto-gondorians were not a united folk but had different factions with one of these serving Sauron at an earlier point while others still respected the Valat, even at a time where the majority had already fallen to the sauronic cult... personally i would prefer to have some corrupt Daen and Northmen rather than only Orcs and Easterlings/Haradrim.I guess the example of Tal-elmar illustrates that at least some proto-gondorians already served Sauron prior to Numenorean landtaking.--Haerangil (talk) 12:39, April 18, 2019 (UTC)

Maybe he had some units, it is not enough to make up a faction, which I am unwilling to spend hours looking for names and tribes when the canon and Merps canon doesn't support it. Moran half valar (talk) 19:16, April 20, 2019 (UTC)

Spouses of Fingon, Caranthir, Maglor, Aranwe, etc.
Hey Haerangil, I have looked up the fanfic names for these spouses and I am a little confused on what you want me to do in this wiki. You told me to run with the fanfic, but I don't see Fingon's wife as having stayed in Middle Earth after Gil-Galad was slain. Furthermore, I don't see Caranthir or Maglor's wife as even having left Valinor like Curufin's wife--though it does say that all of Feanor's household went, but did they survive the battles?

You always told me to run with the fanfic creators and go with what they did, if this is so, then Fingon's wife would have had to depart in the Third Age per the fanfic creators. But personally, I think she left in the Second Age.

So do I follow the fanfic creators or do what is logical? Moran half valar (talk) 17:42, May 2, 2019 (UTC)
 * if they clearly contradict Tolkien sources we have to adjust them.That's what i do when i find such contradicting statements.--Haerangil (talk) 15:57, May 4, 2019 (UTC)

Edhellond Lineage
I have renounced my claim about Bladorthin being a man, but do you still insist on him being the King of Edhellond? If so, who were the rulers of Edhellond and who ruled it/who was there lord/lady in the late third age? Moran half valar (talk) 16:41, May 5, 2019 (UTC)

So does this wiki see Bladorthin as a man or elf? Moran half valar (talk) 18:49, May 6, 2019 (UTC)
 * personally i'd rather prefer Bladorthin being a mortal.But in MERP he is considered an elf so i acknowledge that position.I do not think he has to be king of Edhellond, he just possibly lived there briefly... --Haerangil (talk) 18:06, May 7, 2019 (UTC)